Star Trek: Discovery Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)

[Tally]

no. no and NO.

Sorry 4 eps in and think it is a load of shite, Klingons that are nothing like they ever were, other species that we have never heard of or seen in any iteration that came before or set after (% of the bridge crew).

A ship that can now tumble around like in a spin dryer to travel.....I assume the spore drive is meant to be a precursor to the transwarp transporter that they tried to Mcguffin to us in Into Darkness. I don't care what bullshit technology they're experimenting with, It's crap.

They spore warp to an important and critical mining complex of the federation, take out several ships then spore warp away leaving mines to take out the rest and then don't bother to offer any assistance to said mining colony who have obviously been under siege from said Klingons for considerable time.

Considering this complex is strategically important for the Federation and their dilithium crystal production and also at a time of war with the Klingons your telling us that this complex had no defence systems or other ships to protect such a valuable asset.

And as for the children and adults on the complex with their so sugary its sick " who was that who saved us" comment......  Seriously, what a load of bollocks.

Like others have said, why say it is Star Trek when it clearly is not..... it could be any other sci fi which I could tolerate but this is not Star Trek.

[Tuskin38]

How are these Klingons not acting like they've always have (outside TOS)

They are just like them, going on about honor and all that shit.

Clearly the Shroom drive is going to fail which is why it isn't in later series.

and it is probably also highly classified, which is why they didn't stick around.

[hobbs]

im not enjoying this show either.

my trek nerd brain keeps telling me it is trek but thats a bit hopeful. I dont like the klingons as they seem a bit feeble... not at all hard as nails lol. even the "translated" speech seems to show less forceful vocab than normal. in the last episode there was contriteness... thats not klingon.

and as for starfleet? they have apparently said "win the war any way you can" but that apparently means that all morality goes out the airlock.

the spore drive if anything is a precursor to the upgrade the uss equinox had in voyager. and as its obviously shown that the spores are "sentient" that is was it was outlawed.

im still hoping for it to get better and become the trek i like but i think im hoping invain

[Darkthunder]

The Shroom Drive, is ridiculous on all points...

So the saucer rotates in two different directions after engaging the drive, before spinning the entire ship on it's axis. These writers and directors know there's a little thing called INERTIAL DAMPENERS right? Cause without them, people would be a bug on the rear wall whenever the ship went to warp. Add to that, having the entire ship spin in various directions, would seriously compromise the inertial dampeners, and put a huge strain on the ships energy.

As for the "Lorca maneuver", that entire rescue (like Tally mentioned), was pretty stupid considering the alleged importance of this colony. No backup ships nearby (as always, the "hero" ship is the one closest to where they need to be), and even after destroying all the Klingon ships, Lorca just casually spore warps out again, leaving the colonists to wonder... Hmm, what happened? Also, what was the point of the 2nd spore warp, when there weren't any ships left? Wouldn't conventional warp have sufficed? Or could it be that the spore warp technology is so secretive, that they don't even want the rest of the Federation to know about? I.e Section 31 operatives... (I know you've mentioned elsewhere Tuskin, that you don't subscribe to the Section 31 theory)

[Tuskin38]

So the saucer rotates in two different directions after engaging the drive, before spinning the entire ship on it's axis. These writers and directors know there's a little thing called INERTIAL DAMPENERS right? Cause without them, people would be a bug on the rear wall whenever the ship went to warp. Add to that, having the entire ship spin in various directions, would seriously compromise the inertial dampeners, and put a huge strain on the ships energy.

Rewatch the scene, only the upper layer of the hull roates, none of the weapon ports and windows go with it.

[Darkthunder]

Rewatch the scene, only the upper layer of the hull roates, none of the weapon ports and windows go with it.

And that somehow negates the stupidity of the entire ship spinning on it's axis when the drive engages? Enough defending this turd...

[Tuskin38]

And that somehow negates the stupidity of the entire ship spinning on it's axis when the drive engages? Enough defending this turd...

It isn't stupid at all. We're talking about technology from 300 years from now.

No different from the ship stretching to infinity when going to warp.

I doubt the ship is actually spinning, its probably and optical effect from how the drive works.

[King Class Scout]

I'm seeing a lot of "they changed it, now it sucks" trope naming going on here.  I actually got an AU vibe out of the starter, which would make this a fourth canon universe.  think about it, the Enterprise delta design has shown up early, again

i wonder if anyone will stomach it long enough to find out what the bleep is going on, cause I'm starting to wonder, based on everybody's gripes so far, if trek has been "babylon five" ed on us...or Nu BSGed.  after all, the big trend has been "reimagining" everything from scratch for the past decade, along with the Nostalgia Wave.  I'm betting theres going to be some sort of weird twilight zone twist revealed at some point.

[Tuskin38]

Its the Prime Timeline according to CBS, so it is the Prime Timeline.

You can have head canon saying it isn't and I will respect that, as it is your opinion, but that won't make it official.

[Nebula]

I've also heard they take some inspiration from TAS.

I'm seeing a lot of "they changed it, now it sucks" trope naming going on here.  I actually got an AU vibe out of the starter, which would make this a fourth canon universe.  think about it, the Enterprise delta design has shown up early, again

That thing about the delta was recently debunked on startrek.com they showed a paper stating the delta was the Starfleet emblem.

http://www.startrek.com/article/starfleet-insignia-explained

There are six Starfleet duty insignia used in TOS:

Starship Duty Insignia (Fleet personnel emblem)
Spacecraft Duty Insignia (Auxiliary Fleet/ Merchant Marine personnel emblem)
Outpost Duty Insignia (Outpost and Colony personnel emblem)
Cadet Duty Insignia (Starfleet Academy student emblem)
Starbase Duty Insignia (Headquarters, Space stations, Drydocks, and Ground installation personnel emblem)
Fleet Command Insignia (Senior field commander personnel emblem)

[Tuskin38]

I've also heard they take some inspiration from TAS.

Amanda being a fan of Alice in Wonderland was from TAS.

[Morgan]

Well this weeks was certainly interesting!

Good stuff:  Lorca's PTSD.  What caused the fallout between Sarek and Spock.

Bad stuff:  Discovery has a fucking holodeck    I'm a big advocate of giving the show a fair shot, but stuff like this makes it kind of difficult at times.  I understand that the creative staff will naturally want to do their own thing; for that reason, I'm finding myself leaning in the direction that they should just call this an alternative universe like the JJverse or Mirror Universe.

The show is good if taken on its own merits, but at the same time there's a lot of inconsistencies that are becoming glaring.

[Darkthunder]

Well this weeks was certainly interesting!

Good stuff:  Lorca's PTSD.  What caused the fallout between Sarek and Spock.

Bad stuff:  Discovery has a fucking holodeck    I'm a big advocate of giving the show a fair shot, but stuff like this makes it kind of difficult at times.  I understand that the creative staff will naturally want to do their own thing; for that reason, I'm finding myself leaning in the direction that they should just call this an alternative universe like the JJverse or Mirror Universe.

The show is good if taken on its own merits, but at the same time there's a lot of inconsistencies that are becoming glaring.

Exactly the way I feel.

If Producers would acknowledge the show as part of a new/alternate timeline, I could see myself accepting the show as-is. But there's no way I will ever accept it as being part of "Prime" timeline. Producers have said that things will make sense eventually, and tie into TOS both aesthetically and storywise, but I just don't see it happening.

So I guess the Discovery has all these fancy technologies like Holo Communications, Holographic Simulators, Spore Drive, and NONE of it should exist in this era. Communications alone, had a time-delay in TOS, but a mere 10 years earlier, they are able to have real-time communications? Over Holo Coms?

[Morgan]

Exactly the way I feel.

If Producers would acknowledge the show as part of a new/alternate timeline, I could see myself accepting the show as-is. But there's no way I will ever accept it as being part of "Prime" timeline. Producers have said that things will make sense eventually, and tie into TOS both aesthetically and storywise, but I just don't see it happening.

So I guess the Discovery has all these fancy technologies like Holo Communications, Holographic Simulators, Spore Drive, and NONE of it should exist in this era. Communications alone, had a time-delay in TOS, but a mere 10 years earlier, they are able to have real-time communications? Over Holo Coms?

I can get past the holo-communicators; they're much simpler than 24th century holograms and I can rationalize them as a fad that kind of comes and goes over the years.  The Spore Drive, I can already start to see how that's going to go - we already saw the tardigrade was harmed by it and it seems to be screwing with Stamets.

The holodeck is a big screw up for me though.  The sheer amount of differences between the Discovery Klingons and the ENT/TOS/TNG Klingons is an issue for me as well (especially last week's retconned D7).  I like the idea of the Klingon Empire being in a bit of disarray, but I always imagined the divisions being caused by Augment Klingons trying to gain some kind of political advantage over TNG Klingons, and the TNG Klingons treating the Augment Klingons as objects of pity or contempt.  Discovery isn't going in that direction; the disarray is caused by nothing more than "Klingons gonna be Klingons", and T'Kuvma's followers aren't just a group of religious zealots - the whole race has that mentality it seems.

I wrote up something on /r/daystrominstitute detailing how Discovery's story might have worked better if set between the time of Star Trek VI and Yesterday's Enterprise.  We know about the Khitomer Accords signed at the end of Star Trek VI, and that in 2344 the Federation and Klingons weren't on good terms again and negotiating a new peace treaty, which was made smoother by the Enterprise-C sacrificing herself to defend the Klingon Narendra III colony.  Setting the show between Khitomer and Narendra III could have bridged the gap between what happened between those time periods (50 years is a long time for relations to degrade and it wouldn't be the first time we saw the Federation and Klingons pull out of the Accords - see DS9 season 4).  Hell, the Spore Drive could even be substituted for Starfleet trying to get the Excelsior's Transwarp Drive working again, so we'd even find out what caused it to fail other than Scotty's sabotage in Star Trek III.  Any Mirror Universe episodes could explain how the Terran Empire fell to the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance and give us glimpses of what happened after "In a Mirror, Darkly".  And finally, setting it between Star Trek VI and TNG would eliminate the need to factor in the Augment Virus from Enterprise.  Best of all, the general non-fanatical audiences wouldn't really notice a difference, because Discovery's basic story would work just fine in that era with only a miniscule amount of changes.  So far nothing seems to be being gained by setting the show 10 years before Kirk, other than just saying "this is 10 years before Kirk & Spock" in promotional material.

Writing-wise, on its own merits, Discovery isn't bad.  I like the show when I take it on its own terms and don't worry about what we saw in the other shows.  But the only way I can rationalize some of the issues I'm seeing is to just throw up my hands and do what Ex Astris Scientia is doing and just call it a reboot/new timeline.  I never got to this point even back when hating on Enterprise was cool, but I'm getting there.

[Tuskin38]

There was a holodeck in TAS on the Enterprise.

And the show people seem to consider TAS canon, or at least parts of it (Amanda's appreciation of Lewis Caroll and Rober April)

[Morgan]

There was a holodeck in TAS on the Enterprise.

And the show people seem to consider TAS canon, or at least parts of it (Amanda's appreciation of Lewis Caroll and Rober April)

Memory Alpha considers TAS canon, and from what I understand CBS officially considers it canon as well.  However, there are a lot of issues with this - Ex Astris Scientia has a good article on this (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/tas_continuity.htm).

For a long time, TAS was treated as a kind of soft-canon - as in it could be considered canon unless it was contradicted by a live-action episode or movie.  The sole exception to this was the TAS episode "Yesteryear".  I'm personally in this "soft-canon" category.

[JimmyB76]

ugh this show is getting stupider and stupider...
goddammit

[Tuskin38]

Memory Alpha considers TAS canon, and from what I understand CBS officially considers it canon as well.  However, there are a lot of issues with this - Ex Astris Scientia has a good article on this (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/tas_continuity.htm).

For a long time, TAS was treated as a kind of soft-canon - as in it could be considered canon unless it was contradicted by a live-action episode or movie.  The sole exception to this was the TAS episode "Yesteryear".  I'm personally in this "soft-canon" category.

The real life reason that TAS was discarded by Gene, was because of the rights to the TV series, Filmation owned it.

[Tally]

ugh this show is getting stupider and stupider...
goddammit

Yup!


Its fucking heartbreaking seeing them shitting on 50 years of what we all know and love. I can't get past the fact of "Prime Timeline".... it's not.... I wouldn't get past the fact if it was the JJ one.... it is neither.
If it leaned towards either one or attempted to bridge between them then I'd consider investing but the whole look and feel of the show does not suit the era they have set it in.

Federation ships SHOULD of been of the Kelvin look, at least they were a more modern take on the era they represented and not something that makes TNG and post Nemesis look vintage.
If its Prime then surely without Nero even happening that look was established regardless? 



Once again wtf have they done to the Klingons ?

Apart from Isaac's character I am grating my teeth watching most of the rest bicker, act smug, go against any internal logic or rational thinking. They have drained the spirit of what Trek was all about and turned into style over substance.

Its mentally exhausting seeing them defecate all over what we know over the years from TOS, the films and previous tv shows..... I'll give it this, its got me shouting at the tv several times and not in a good way


Watching The Orville instead and it is so much more like Trek than what this will ever be.

[Morgan]

Apart from Isaac's character I am grating my teeth watching most of the rest bicker, act smug, go against any internal logic or rational thinking

Yeah the constant bickering between the crew is something I'm not too fond of.  I get wanting to get away from Gene's "no conflict among the crew" thing, but there's also a point where the characters need to chill the fuck out and act like professionals.  Hell, even Enterprise didn't devolve to this level of behavior in its early years (and that's when Archer was a borderline racist who thought Vulcans were out to get him).

DS9 walked the conflict/professionalism line well, and Discovery would be wise to take some notes.

No matter what though I can't bring myself to hate Lorca - he's just too damn good a character.  I really hope they don't try to make him Garth or kill him off.

Federation ships SHOULD of been of the Kelvin look

I'm in agreement here as well.  Most of the ships at the binary stars looked like Star Trek Online knockoffs.  The only ship that looks appropriate is Discovery herself, oddly enough.  Credit where credit is due - the overall shape is definitely pre-TOS, and the sphere in the primary hull is reminiscent of the Daedalus-class.  Granted the design has parts that are ugly as sin, but at least it looks appropriate.