Star Trek: Discovery Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS)

[Tuskin38]

The show has been getting better each episode for me 

[Morgan]

The show has been getting better each episode for me 

I say again, if I ignore the other shows and movies, then Discovery is good on its own merits.  I am really, really digging Lorca.  He seems like he has a healthy mix of Sisko and Kirk in him and Jason Isaac's plays him with style.  Georgeou was great as well and hope we see more of her in flashbacks/holograms, etc.

All that said, once I do remember the other shows I just have a hard time accepting this as a prime timeline show.  The changes to the Klingons are just so extreme and totally ignores ENT: "Affliction" & "Divergence", and TOS and TNG.  The holocommunicators aren't as big a deal for me as they are to Darkthunder, but I understand why some fans might be upset by them.  They're not ideal for the era but not game-breaking for me.  The holodeck and retconned D7 though... That's kind of immersion breaking.

So with that, I'm just in the camp where I think Discovery should just be a new timeline.  We know there's a bunch of different quantum realities from episodes like "Mirror, Mirror", "Parallels", "Crossover", etc., so there's nothing wrong with setting the show in a new reality.  I just wish the show would do it because a bunch of little details just start adding up.

[Nebula]

The holodeck and retconned D7 though... That's kind of immersion breaking.

The holodeck is fine for me because it was a shooting range basically just a hallway. They were in a small circular area. The Klingons also didn't do much but run after them. They didn't look physical just projections.

Non of the "holograms" we've seen in the show were physical, just images floating in space. 

TAS also introduced the holodeck.

Also about the D7? We don't even know if it really was a D7 just that it had the signature of one... They called it 3 different ships in 2 eps. a D7, a Prison ship, and Tilly called it a BOP the next ep.

[Morgan]

The holodeck is fine for me because it was a shooting range basically just a hallway. They were in a small circular area. The Klingons also didn't do much but run after them. They didn't look physical just projections.

Non of the "holograms" we've seen in the show were physical, just images floating in space.

I have to disagree.  That was not a shooting range - check out Elite Force if you want to see a shooting range, or several TNG episodes where Picard, Riker, or Worf are on the shooting range firing at targets.

What we saw in Discovery... It worked exactly like a holodeck.  It was a circular room, yes, but so were the holosuites on DS9.  It created a realistic looking environment that was bigger than the actual room (meaning that forcefields were needed to produce the "treadmill" effect), and the Klingons were very realistic looking.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

TAS also introduced the holodeck.

TAS is questionable continuity-wise to begin with.  It's part of the reason why it was officially non-canon for so long to begin with (or soft-canon at best).

Also about the D7? We don't even know if it really was a D7 just that it had the signature of one... They called it 3 different ships in 2 eps. a D7, a Prison ship, and Tilly called it a BOP the next ep.

That's not really helping your point.  The computer clearly identified it as a D7, and the ship that popped up was so different than the D7 we got to know in TOS that the only reasonable explanation is a retcon.  Saying that it had two other different names is just showing some inconsistency in Discovery itself, but not really solidifying the idea that the D7 wasn't retconned.

[Nebula]

I have to disagree.  That was not a shooting range - check out Elite Force if you want to see a shooting range, or several TNG episodes where Picard, Riker, or Worf are on the shooting range firing at targets.

What we saw in Discovery... It worked exactly like a holodeck.  It was a circular room, yes, but so were the holosuites on DS9.  It created a realistic looking environment that was bigger than the actual room (meaning that forcefields were needed to produce the "treadmill" effect), and the Klingons were very realistic looking.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Gene wanted a Holodeck in season 3 of TOS but never got the chance until TAS then later in TNG.
I'd watch the vid I posted.

TAS is questionable continuity-wise to begin with.  It's part of the reason why it was officially non-canon for so long to begin with (or soft-canon at best).

Yes Soft Canon and Discovery is picking and choosing things it wants from it.

As for tech I say most ships are getting near TMP design/tech wise. The Enterprise is around 10 years old at this time and 20 by the time of Kirk. The Connies are preferred assignments but are getting long in the tooth and ready for their refits. 

[Tuskin38]

CBS made TAS canon a few years back.

The only reason it was made non-canon before was because of rights issues, it was 'political'. Gene had no control of it after the fact, so he just declared it non-canon because of that.



DSC also isn't the first show to reference TAS, there have been a scattering of references across all the live action shows, mostly DS9 IIRC.

TOS-Remastered also used a ship design from TAS.

I think the most recent episode actually helps with Sarek and Spock's relationship in the earlier productions.

[Morgan]

Gene wanted a Holodeck in season 3 of TOS but never got the chance until TAS then later in TNG.
I'd watch the vid I posted.

Just because I disagree with the point doesn't mean I ignored the video... 

I know there was a holodeck in TAS.  I know Gene wanted it in TOS.  I also know TNG established it as new technology.  I'm not keen on the holodeck showing up in Discovery.  It doesn't feel right for a pre-TOS show.  We'll have to agree to disagree here.

I think the most recent episode actually helps with Sarek and Spock's relationship in the earlier productions

I agree.  I liked the Burnham/Sarek stuff a lot and sheds a lot of light on Spock and Sarek's issues.  The character stuff and story is pretty good.

[Tuskin38]

I love to hate Mudd.

[Nebula]

oh mudd you silly silly evil fun guy.

[Nebula]

https://trekmovie.com/2017/10/31/interview-ted-sullivan-talks-star-trek-discoverys-not-holodeck-lorcas-damage-and-more/

Good interview.

[hobbs]

I think it may well be a different time line. If the mutineer gets a chance to gi back in time and stop herself from  starting the war then all resets. Just my thought lol

However moving on from my other posts this show has had some very "trek" episodes those I like, lorca.... not so sure he seems evil. But maybe hes just damaged because of his past and torture.

I like the more trek episodes

[Morgan]

lorca.... not so sure he seems evil. But maybe hes just damaged because of his past and torture.

I love Lorca.  He strikes me as having a healthy mix of Kirk and Sisko in him, and maybe a hint of post-Xindi arc Archer, but still enough of his own character that he doesn't feel ripped off.  He's definitely damaged and broken.

This week's story was definitely a Trek-style story.  For a few minutes I thought it was gonna be a blatant rip off of TNG's "Cause and Effect" - kind of like how "Doctor's Orders" in Enterprise's third season was just a carbon copy rip off of Voyager's "One" - but it turned out to have a lot of differences that worked out pretty well.

Good character stuff between Burnham and Tyler.  Lorca's blatant "I don't give a fuck" attitude towards the space whale played well to his character (he's a soldier after all), but he also did his job in ordering its relocation and didn't blink at it, so that was good.  Nothing really continuity-breaking this week either which is a plus.

I'm not sure how I feel about Mudd though.  He's played very well, but he seems much more sociopathic in Discovery than I remember him being in The Original Series.  I may have to rewatch the Mudd episodes just to be sure, but still he seems a bit off to me.

Stella was pretty bangin' though 

[Nebula]

I'm not sure how I feel about Mudd though.  He's played very well, but he seems much more sociopathic in Discovery than I remember him being in The Original Series.  I may have to rewatch the Mudd episodes just to be sure, but still he seems a bit off to me.

Well one thing is he was ten years younger in Discovery, so he is bound to act a little differently in TOS. Also there is the fact that somewhere between Discovery and TOS Mudd was sentenced to undergo psychiatric treatment.

[Morgan]

Well one thing is he was ten years younger in Discovery, so he is bound to act a little differently in TOS. Also there is the fact that somewhere between Discovery and TOS Mudd was sentenced to undergo psychiatric treatment.

Ah good points.  Like I said, been a while since I've seen the TOS Mudd episodes.

[JimmyB76]

this show is just stooopid... 

[Morgan]

this show is just stooopid... 

I just don't know what it's gaining by setting itself 10 years before Kirk.  The whole premise screams, bear minimum, Lost Era between Star Trek VI and TNG.

 - The Khitomer Accords obviously broke down sometime between Star Trek VI and TNG, since in "Yesterday's Enterprise" Castillo clearly mentions that the Federation and Klingons were negotiating a new treaty in 2344.

 - The Excelsior's transwarp drive could be substituted for Discovery's Spore Drive.  We really don't know anything about why the drive failed, other than Scotty sabotaging it.  At some point Starfleet would have tried to fix it, so what happened?

 - The characters and their histories could easily fit between Star Trek VI and TNG; only Burnham would need some adjustments, but so far she doesn't really seem to be gaining anything by being raised by Sarek that she wouldn't from another Vulcan.

 - There would be no issue ignoring the Augment Virus because it was cured sometime between TOS and TMP.

 - Changing the show to fit the Lost Era would only need changes that only the most hardcore of fans would notice.  The casual viewer wouldn't even notice a difference.

[sire01a]

I just think that DSC is very sideways from Trek. I've liked Trek since TOS reruns when little I think I was 8yrs old when TNG Premiered, and even Ent sometimes. But, DSC. I cannot get myself to accept DSC as Trek as I did when DS9 or VOY or Even ENT came out. It's an okay show by itself - even with all the CBS SJW stuff, which isn't "AS BAD" as I predicted. But, it's an "OKAY" Show by itself, it just not Star Trek to me. I almost cringe when they refer to known things like "SPOCK" and so forth, like they are trying too hard to be Trek, but also trying to reinvent it as well. Kind of a Tug of War to itself. And this... Focussing the whole show on one person, I know there are other people on there and all that. But, Trek was always about all of them together, or one character going through something, or is the hero/focus of one episode or another. Otherwise, all of them working together with their own piece of expertise - Team Effort. And seriously sorry, but the engineer is so smug I want to break his nose.

[Tuskin38]

The advantage of setting it Before TOS (or at least 100 years after NEM like how TNG was with TOS) is new audience, they won't need to watch the previous series to understand anything.

Setting it only a short time after Nem, or in the Lost Era, there will be too much baggage for new viewers.

This show isn't primarily for Star Trek fans.

this show is just stooopid... 

Yes Jimmy, we get it. You don't need to repeat yourself.

[Darkthunder]

This show isn't primarily for Star Trek fans.

Wait what?!? A Star Trek show, isn't for Star Trek fans? Who's it for? My Little Pony fans? Seriously, that's a really poor argument in an attempt to defend this turd of a show.

[JimmyB76]

Yes Jimmy, we get it. You don't need to repeat yourself.

i know, i was just trying to be funny...
while it is true i have sadly found no interest in this series after the first few eps, it isnt nice be all negative deliberatly about something someone else really likes...  i was just trolling the thread to be funny, i do apologize if i was being offensive...

i really wanted to like it; i tried... i just couldnt get past ep 3... i will prolly try again  later down the road, but for now everything about this show makes me sad and annoyed...  right down to small details, like not really being able to see what friggin rank someone holds with those tiny little dots on the starfleet insignia on the chest...

I just don't know what it's gaining by setting itself 10 years before Kirk.  The whole premise screams, bear minimum, Lost Era between Star Trek VI and TNG.

 - The Khitomer Accords obviously broke down sometime between Star Trek VI and TNG, since in "Yesterday's Enterprise" Castillo clearly mentions that the Federation and Klingons were negotiating a new treaty in 2344.

 - The Excelsior's transwarp drive could be substituted for Discovery's Spore Drive.  We really don't know anything about why the drive failed, other than Scotty sabotaging it.  At some point Starfleet would have tried to fix it, so what happened?

 - The characters and their histories could easily fit between Star Trek VI and TNG; only Burnham would need some adjustments, but so far she doesn't really seem to be gaining anything by being raised by Sarek that she wouldn't from another Vulcan.

 - There would be no issue ignoring the Augment Virus because it was cured sometime between TOS and TMP.

 - Changing the show to fit the Lost Era would only need changes that only the most hardcore of fans would notice.  The casual viewer wouldn't even notice a difference.

YES!! i have been saying that all along!
if the show was placed in The Lost Era timeline, and stuck to canon, i would have absolutely LOVED this series right from the beginning!  there was so much space and time between Ent-B, Ent-C, eother timeline would have been fine...  hell, they could have started Ent-B era and went for many years airing until much later in Ent-C era...  or anywhere in between...
i sooooo wish it could have been this way instead...
le sigh