Bridge Commander Central
BC Forums => BC Modding => Topic started by: ChiefBrex on April 15, 2011, 08:09:02 PM
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Okay, here's the start of the Secondary hull for the Rigel Class. There are a few rough spots, and am trying to figure out how to clean them up. And it does look a little low poly because, as this is my first time doing this design, I didn't want to complicate it with too many polies
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Honestly, use more polys. You aren't gonna run out, since most Trek ships are fairly easy on the poly count. The rounded edges are SO important when making a ship, as they are very visible against the black backgrounds of space. So using more polygons in those instances is advisable. Where you cut the count is how you deal with transitional edges from the main parts, such as the nacelles to the pylons, pylons to engineering, engineering to neck (if applicable) and neck to saucer. Those are the ones where you clean the mesh. Spend more on the parts that will be visible against the blackness and you'll wind up with a much more enticing mesh.
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Good start brex
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Honestly, use more polys. You aren't gonna run out, since most Trek ships are fairly easy on the poly count. The rounded edges are SO important when making a ship, as they are very visible against the black backgrounds of space. So using more polygons in those instances is advisable.
There's a reason for the low polycount, and it says so in the OP:
And it does look a little low poly because, as this is my first time doing this design, I didn't want to complicate it with too many polies
Nice start so far Brex. Nice to see you back at modelling again, been a while since I last seen you :P
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im just glad i managed to get him back into it :D
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Okay, here's the saucer section. Again, it looks low poly, even though I did make an attempt this time at increasing the polies. So, I will have to chamfer the edges and the phaser strips. Otherwise, the rest of the mesh looks good I think.
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I'm aware your going for Low-Poly, but you can add more Polies than that.
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I'm aware your going for Low-Poly, but you can add more Polies than that.
Hence why he said he's chamferring the edges...it is still a WIP So it'll get better I'm sure :)
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Well that, or I scrap an entire weekend's worth of work and start over from scratch.
UPDATE: Added pics of what I've completed so far (at the end of the thread)
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nacelles remind me of a PDW take on TOS ones. I'm liking were this is going.
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meh ... i like it :P
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New Pics. Finished up a new saucer. Took me 4 hours rofl
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looks very smooth, but maybe a tad thin ;)
Cookie
~Jb
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Told u didn't .. I'm happy its coming along for you. Can't wait to see the finished model. Then ill watch your mapping n textures good luck pat!
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!
i can see my install slowing to a crawl even now...
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rofl @ KCS: It's the textures that tend to slow installs down. Polies can do it too, but not nearly as bad as textures.
Anyway, another pic update. I used Mesh Smooth to fix the secondary hull. Turned out almost perfect as a result. See below.
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I never would have used Meshsmooth....but yours turned out nice!
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yeah, I usually stay away from it myself. But rebuilding the secondary hull from scratch seemed kinda be extreme. So I thought I would give it a try. And it turned out well. But I don't plan to make a habit of using MeshSmooth. This was like a last resort fix. I got lucky is all.
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Very nice. I think the neck looks a little thin though, needs to be a bit wider.
Looking great so far. :thumbsup:
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Make the Defector, Purple.
and the Ship looks much better now, great job.
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@Captain_D, that's just the front of the neck. It gets wider as it goes back.
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I've had trouble with High Poly Ships with tiny textures. Baz's JJprise Refit 1.0 was 54k polies/faces, and 20 some odd mesh pieces. course, I'm also running a stocker when it comes to graphics, so...
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Here are a few updated pics of the mesh. Still have to join the parts together, but colored them the same for consistency. Let me know what you think.
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Yeah while I know the neck is fat in the back (LOL) it still screams "SHOOT ME" LOL However this looks eeeeexxxxcccellleeent!
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lookin good!
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@Captain_D, that's just the front of the neck. It gets wider as it goes back.
I was hoping it was that way, with the Ambassador styling of the design. Just a bad angle to view from. :D
The back of the secondary looks a bit off. May not look that way with the nacel and pylons.
Looking very nice so far. :thumbsup:
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Is this a JJ-Style Ship?
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It's looking pretty good. Can we get some other views? And no, this isn't a JJ ship. Google Rigel Class.
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Is this a JJ-Style Ship?
Its in the Wolf 359 fleet wreckage.;)
http://ditl.org/index.php?daymain=/pagship.php?fedrigel
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This design is seen on the Journal of Applied Treknology's website under "Rigel Class".
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oooh! i like this design! from the few pics i have been able to find, it almost looks like sort of a "modernized" Ambassador Class!
(altho perhaps only the nacelles are what is different from the Ambassador Class?)
http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=15
http://www.treknology.org/new/rigel-tim2.jpg
http://www.treknology.org/new/rigel-tim3.jpg
im surprised this one hasnt been done before - ill definitely include it in my install :)
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JIMMY! WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT SURICATA LINK! ZOMG! THAT'S WHAT I NEEDED!
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Try Google images
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I thought I had seen a Rigel class like that before, Jimmy you are a star!
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Updated pics. Don't have any other pics yet.
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Nacelles need to be a little higher, and a little further out, but other than that great.
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Not sure about further out, but I do think they need to be raised a little.
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JIMMY! WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT SURICATA LINK! ZOMG! THAT'S WHAT I NEEDED!
Jimmy you are a star!
After the links Jimmy posted
what, no friggin cooookeez? :dontcare:
bitchez be hatin'!
lol j/k :P
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hehehe. +1 cookie buuuuuuuuddy :)
UPDATE: New Pics. More angles. Parts have been combined. Total Poly count 16K. Still gonna add details once I clean up the mesh. Including possibly a crazy idea on the saucer, to see how it looks. Anyway, enjoy.
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looking good :D
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Agreed, nice :D
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brex i know no mater what ur argue with me about whos the better modler but man im so impressed with u, ur renders are nice and smooth and everything whats your setup?
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@Phoenix, I'll tell you when I see you online on MSN, Skype, or FB. It's not really complicated or anything. Just takes a lot of explaining.
@Tao_kaita and Nebula: Thanks guys. I'm glad to see that everyone's liking the design. Tim "Suricata" Davies made a great model. It's worth being in BC.
@Deadthunder2_0 and DarkThunder: I appreciate the suggestions, but trust me, this is where the nacelles supposed to be. I should point out the the Excelsior Refit's bussards were partially blocked by the saucer. As was the Ambassador's, but not nearly as much as the Excelsior Refit's.
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Looking good, the only thing I'd alter is the neck to be a bit thicker at the bad, otherwise there isn't enough internal space for the impusle engines to occupy. I think you'll find it improves the look when viewed from behind as well.
The general placement of parts seems spot on, I spent quite alot of time tweaking the placements of parts so the ship would look good from as many angles as possable. The Bussards are designed so that they have partial forward visability (each nacelle has one entry point with full forward exposure).
The bridge area seems a bit off. I think the deck area under the bridge needs to be slightly larger.
The aft torpedo launcher is above the shuttle bay at the end of the spine (similar to the Galaxy class) so you might want to model it in there.
Other than those minor details, shes looking really nice, can't wait to see how you texture her. I used Galaxy class style textures on my renders since she is meant to of been developed between the Ambassador and Galaxy class, although its worth noting she is a light cruiser, not a heavy cruiser. I updated the blog page linked earlier in the thread with some more images btw.
Keep up the good work :-)
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-shock- I didn't even know you were on BCC Suricata ^_^;
anyway, I actually cut the size of the impulse engine in half and put the aft torpedo launcher below it. But I can always change that if necessary. As for the Deck 2 area, I had it larger, but it just didn't fit well, at least imo. So, I shrank it down from from to back. But the Bridge/Deck 1 area is the exact same size as on your side image.
Everything else is exactly where it should be. Even the nacelles. I love your design a lot, and wanted to make it my first attempt at a TNG/23rd Century vessel model. And it's been a great model practicing on.
Thanks for your input Suricata. If you don't like the changes I've made, please let me know. I will go back and readjust them.
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The changes you have made are fine, I prefer the wider neck area for Treknical reasons, but its a matter of opinion I suppose. Sadly I don't have as much time as I used to for making my concepts in 3d, so its really nice when other people attempt to make them! ;-)
I've lurked on these forums for a few years, usually because I get the occasional email from people wanting to make some of the ship concepts I draw. I only made an account today after I saw a peak in traffic on my website coming from here :-P
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That would be my fault (and Jimmy's). Apparently it's the opinion of BCC that your Rigel Class concept is overdue for inclusion into Bridge Commander. I'm about to post updated pics of what I have do so far. I hope you'll like what you see!
[Edit: Pics at the end of the thread]
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Excellent! :yay:
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Looks good to me :) :P
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Whoa that is a pretty looking ship, looks like a TLE ship which is a cool era.
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New Pics! Mesh is nearly completed. I've got some smoothing errors to work out on the nacelles and pylons. I'm also going to model in the transporter emitters and rcs thrusters, as well as some minor details on the secondary hull to flesh it out a little more.
If everything goes according to plan, I should have a count of 21 to 25K polies. Anyway, enjoy the pics. :)
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
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Looking good!
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Oi post this at cjg too byach! lol
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Oi post this at cjg too byach! lol
Done. Now go and comment byach XD
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Looks Nice so far.
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VERY Nice. Definitely going in my install.
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I think there's a mesh error in the saucer bottom, near the rear end of the phaser array.
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I think there's a mesh error in the saucer bottom, near the rear end of the phaser array.
there is. It's just that the verts haven't been aligned to the polies yet. I fixed some of it the other day, but haven't gotten around to fixing the rest of it. I'll have that done soon.
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Very nice work. :thumbsup:
Looking forward to seeing the textures on this one.
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looks great, I hope to be able to beam abord soon.
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Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. When I get some time to do more work on it, I'll make sure to post some new pics.
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[Edit: Pics removed, updated mesh at end of thread]
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Definitely Type 1. It looks more TNG-ish.
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Agreed with Wiley :)
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agreed too, nr. 1
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That does seem to be the general consensus all around. And I agree, it looks much better. I'll clean up the nacelle a bit, and then with a good symmetry, make the port nacelle look the same way. Interestingly enough, the change actually dropped the overall poly count from 20.6K to 19.7K. So it's saving me some trouble in that department.
Furthermore, I also tested the ability to widen the neck considerably. It will work. It's going to take some creativity getting the extension to blend into the rest of the secondary hull, but hopefully the neck won't look like a twig anymore when I'm done.
Essentially, the mesh is nearly complete. Once all mesh errors (that I can find) are dealt with, and I have all the details in that I want, I'll start the mapping process.
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I'm gonna have a lot of fun with this baby! :D :thumbsup:
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New Pics. Nacelles and Neck updated. Tell me what you think.
[Pics at end of thread]
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looking nice , can't help but picture wider impulse drive so agree with thoughts of widening the neck at the back. Maybe moving forward/aft torp bays from the neck altogether, like the thought of possibly dual forward(one either side of bottom of deflector) and aft torp launchers where curve goes upwards on secondary hull, either side by side at base or a little further apart a little futher up the curve in line with front ones.
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I just widened the neck already. If I make it any wider, it's gonna be almost as wide as the secondary hull. It's just not gonna look right.
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Perhaps making the neck a slight "V" shape (widest part at the back of the neck starting at the top and narrowing down to the bottom). The width of the impulse engines can extrude out past the width of the back of the neck a bit. However, after several meters along the length of the engine (the length that would be the impulse reactor), going from rear to front, the engine housing gradually meshes along the width of the neck in a concave shape and tappers with it up at the front where the forward torpedo launcher is at.
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would maybe dual impulse side by side at back of saucer/top of neck continuing along lines of TMP/Pre TNG lineage, maybe Galaxy type but side by side there? Not knocking design just seeing where it can be built upon :drool:
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Perhaps making the neck a slight "V" shape (widest part at the back of the neck starting at the top and narrowing down to the bottom). The width of the impulse engines can extrude out past the width of the back of the neck a bit. However, after several meters along the length of the engine (the length that would be the impulse reactor), going from rear to front, the engine housing gradually meshes along the width of the neck in a concave shape and tappers with it up at the front where the forward torpedo launcher is at.
The neck is already a V shape. I refer you to the forward view of the ship in the last pic post of mine.
would maybe dual impulse side by side at back of saucer/top of neck continuing along lines of TMP/Pre TNG lineage, maybe Galaxy type but side by side there? Not knocking design just seeing where it can be built upon :drool:
The original design concept that I picked this up from, does not include impulse engines on the saucer, which is why they are not included here. And to add them at this point, would require significant redesign of the saucer. And honestly, I don't see the big deal over the size of the impulse engine. If it continues to be a problem for everyone, I can scrap the project.
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its not a problem at all, was considering you were asking for peoples thoughts i'd contribute with mine
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its not a problem at all, was considering you were asking for peoples thoughts i'd contribute with mine
For you, no it's not. People make suggestions without thinking what it's gonna take to implement those changes so it suits their tastes better. I have literally spent the entire morning looking at the neck, spine, and saucer of this ship to try and add extra impulse engines, or widen the neck and spine even further.
It becomes impossible to make the neck wider at the back, because I'd have to move verts around individually. And there's no way I'm gonna be able to keep stuff aligned properly that way. Not to mention the hours its going to take to get all of the verts welded, redraw edges, polies, etc. where necessary. And all because people think the neck is too thin to house both an Impulse deck and a torpedo bay...
I mean really, I'm just about ready to scrap this project. I really don't want to work on it anymore. I'm so frustrated right now.
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*quirks a brow* Chief dude, maybe you need a couple days of "you" time. While I agree about the neck I understand how it can be a bit of a pain in the @$$ :S. (I have pretty much scrapped my Titan project until I learn more about modeling, hence the box modeling of the TARDIS). Taking some time off may give you fresh ideas! Seriously, there isn't any rush!
Take your time with this one man. She looks excellent :).
And another possible reason about it...could be how the saucer is positioned. It's considerably lower than the Galaxy/Ambassador saucer...that's another reason I think it's throwing people off.
EDIT: That last paragraph wasn't asking to change that BTW. Just thinking people need to get used to that idea!!
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This is the absolute last attempt I make at widening the neck. If this isn't big enough, project over.
[Edit: Pics at end of thread
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Looks great!!!!
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The neck is already a V shape. I refer you to the forward view of the ship in the last pic post of mine.
This is what I meant... to make myself a bit mroe clearer (didn't have access to my computer last night when I posted or I would have done this in the first place to help in what I was presenting).
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hmmm...actually, that doesn't look too bad...
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Thank goodness for that Chief.
When I saw server's post I thought you would explode. :funny
Loving your ship and have done since you started
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For you, no it's not. People make suggestions without thinking what it's gonna take to implement those changes so it suits their tastes better. I have literally spent the entire morning looking at the neck, spine, and saucer of this ship to try and add extra impulse engines, or widen the neck and spine even further.
It becomes impossible to make the neck wider at the back, because I'd have to move verts around individually. And there's no way I'm gonna be able to keep stuff aligned properly that way. Not to mention the hours its going to take to get all of the verts welded, redraw edges, polies, etc. where necessary. And all because people think the neck is too thin to house both an Impulse deck and a torpedo bay...
I mean really, I'm just about ready to scrap this project. I really don't want to work on it anymore. I'm so frustrated right now.
Understand how you feel but try and hang in there. Sure you'll get a lot of support. Personally I don't see anything wrong with model, which I think looks great and nice new contribution - but then I'm not a ship-nerd as everyone here knows :D
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Thank goodness for that Chief.
When I saw server's post I thought you would explode. :funny
I didn't see Brex's previous post until after I had posted mine and I thought he was going to blow up at me too. :facepalm:
I'm glad he thinks my idea "isn't too bad"... was sweating bullets there for a minute. :funny
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Well, the largest problem with making the neck bigger is the spine itself. As well as the shape of the secondary hull. HOWEVER, moving the top end of the neck to make it wider, and into a V-shape, as server has suggested, actually alleviates the problems of the Impulse engine being too small, and the neck being too thin in the back. Plus, it matches the transition from the Ambassador-style neck, to the Galaxy-style neck much better.
So yeah, it's a much better idea. My apologies to Server for misunderstanding his suggestion.
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Well, the largest problem with making the neck bigger is the spine itself. As well as the shape of the secondary hull. HOWEVER, moving the top end of the neck to make it wider, and into a V-shape, as server has suggested, actually alleviates the problems of the Impulse engine being too small, and the neck being too thin in the back. Plus, it matches the transition from the Ambassador-style neck, to the Galaxy-style neck much better.
So yeah, it's a much better idea. My apologies to Server for misunderstanding his suggestion.
No worries bro. You've been barraged left and right about the neck since day-1 lol
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The neck does have a 'V' shape (wider at the top than the bottom), which makes the joint to the secondary hull easier, whislt allowing a wider impulse engine exhaust 1 deck up. On the original design that is.
Shes coming along very nicely, looking forward to the textureing :-)
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Thanks Suricata. Some of the angles make it hard to see that in your pics. But I am glad that you confirmed what server already was able to suggest.
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I was thinking about how you said earlier that you were having issues getting the neck to fit on the hull and realised something didn't feel quite right about the way the ship was lookin. So, I went on a hunt on my old computers hard drive and found some images of the original model (without textures, which seem to of gone missing over the passage of getting new computers!).
As you can see in the images below, the secondary hull is not perfectly round, but more a squashed shape, this was done to show a progression between the Ambassador and Galaxy class secondary hulls. You can also see that the pylons didn't quite fit at a perfcet angle with the hull. I don't have higher resolution images available I'm afraid, but hopefully the image will be useful for getting elements positioned better.
(http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/rigelclass.jpg)
It's a real shame that I can't find the original model and textures right now to help you out better :-(
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It's all good Suricata. But the thing is, to reshape the secondary hull, would mean scrapping everything I've done, and starting over. I think for now, we'll keep the circular secondary hull. It's fitting fine enough. Anyway, new pics.
[Edit: Pics at the end of thread]
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That looks fantastic CB!
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Love the pylons. So simple yet so elegant
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Yay! :yay:
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Excellent work. Very much look forward to this.
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She's a beauty, alright.
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Okay, I re-added the Impulse Engine, and now it looks huge. So just gotta add the aft torpedo bay in a different spot, probably ad the end of the spine like Suricata originally placed it.
After that, I'll add details to the underside of the secondary hull, and rooms to the windows on the underside saucer windows. After which, it's mapping time XD
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hmmm, I seem to be reaching an impasse with some of the mesh issues on the model. Anyone have any suggestions? The problem areas are primarily the phaser arrays on the hull. I'm having a hard time aligning the verts because they're on angles. So using the transform gizmo is a bit of a pain.
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Thats a nice mesh mate, nicely done.
As for your problem you can either restrict movement on a particular axis of verts with the "Reference Coordinate System" or use the "Constraints" in the command panel. :thumbsup:
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small big problem with ur ship brex, the nacelles arent visible from the front, its like one of the biggest rules in designing a ship.
basicly your crw would die from lack of oxygen due to the bussards not being able to operate!
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that rule isn't set in stone and many ships have broken it...
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i don't think the bussards collect anything for the life support, I think they collect strictly for the engines.
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yeah, most ships have an air replication and recycling system, all the bussards do is collect trace amounts of gases to use in various engine reactions and theres only trace amounts of oxygen in space, so evern if the bussards were linked into life support, there wouldnt be enought oxygen to keep a gerbil alive for 3 minutes.
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The nacelles just need nudging up a little thats all, as you can see in the renders of the original design, the bussards do have clearance.
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small big problem with ur ship brex, the nacelles arent visible from the front, its like one of the biggest rules in designing a ship.
basicly your crw would die from lack of oxygen due to the bussards not being able to operate!
Yeah...I recall seeing where Gene Roddenberry insisted on being able to see the nacelles from the fronts of Federation ships, however after his passing...they tended to disreguard that more often. It was in a 'behind the scenes' segment I watched at somepoint, not sure which one it was though. I personally like seeing them, but to each and his own. I love the design of this one...definitely well thought out.
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They don't, they collect stray hydrogen atoms from space, they have nothing to do with Life support on a ship.
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Thats a nice mesh mate, nicely done.
As for your problem you can either restrict movement on a particular axis of verts with the "Reference Coordinate System" or use the "Constraints" in the command panel. :thumbsup:
Will have to give this a try. Sorry for the lack of updates. Work is keeping me hella busy. rofl
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-blows the dust off of the thread- Phew....been awhile since I've posted.
Anyway, reworking the Rigel Class. Putting in a little more detail into her, and fixing a few design problems. Will post new pics when I have them.
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Huzzah!
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:yay:
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:yeahthat: Looking forward to it.
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New Pics :)
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
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about bloody time too :D :yay:
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Looks excellent, and the ship is a beauty, except cause the bugged eyes at the naceles front (excuse me Suricata). :D
The bussards and naceles front could follow lines like this: http://trekazoid.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/uss20chariot2033cc2.jpg, and the naceles? body something along these lines: http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u489/brstarship/TREK_SHIPS/Divine7.jpg
It?s just a suggestion, of course, but I think this mix could fits very well with this ship, and still keep the original lines there. ;)
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Looks good. I'm not familiar with this class. What era is it?
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Its part of the Ambassador family. It was one of the ships(never seen but known) at Wolf 359. Its based off of Suricata's model at his site.
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Yeah, not sure if I can build either of those styles of nacelles rofl. They look great, but they're pretty complicated. I will try some other nacelle designs and see if we can't find anything that works. I was also thinking of making the Rigel's nacelles sit below the saucer rather than above it. It fits better imo with the Ambassador-to-Galaxy lineage.
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Talked to Suricata about the nacelle design. we're gonna do a little collaborative work on the nacelles to find something better. We may, even, tweak the design here and there. But nacelle design first ^_^.
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Before I get started, let me make it clear that this is NOT about the NX-era Miranda Class. This is about the original Poseidon design that I kitbashed from a Prommie and a Sovvie many years ago. I'm now working on overhauling the design to make it look less of a kitbash, and something more elegant.
Right now I'm just working on sketches to get a feel for what I want the design to look like. Most of the advice that I am looking for is ways to mesh a Sovereign-style secondary hull and a Prometheus-style saucer section together. Also, suggestions on the overall design are welcome and appreciated. Anyway, the pics below are just sketches. Feel free to edit them as necessary to make your suggestion clear. As of right now, I only have the starboard view worked on. I plan on doing front, rear, top and bottom view sketches. I will try to model parts when I'm happy with the way their sketches look.
My first question: What would you all suggest as the best way to build a Sovereign-style nacelle? (see pictures below for suggested design).
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Poseidon%20Class/PSV001.jpg)
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Though it is just the side view, I think she looks pretty nice. My suggestion would be on the Bussard.
Instead of the split being where it is, follow the nose and split it that way. Instead from side to side, top to bottom.
Looking forward to the other views. looks like it will be a great project. Nice so far. :thumbsup:
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yeah, the bussard may or may not have a split along the nose. I haven't decided yet. But I have definitely decided that I want either 3 or 5 "sections" to the bussard. It'd give it a unique look. But we have to see how it looks both on paper and on model.
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Armor the nacelle a bit. Put a semi-trans mesh type texture over bussard and grilles to give it a reinforced/armor look while still allowing glow, you seem to be going warship here or at least something post sov I assume?
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i always did love this ship!! it has always been in all of my installs :)
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Starforce, I'm trying to go with something that looks inspired by ships like the Sovereign, the Prometheus, the Intrepid, and the Nova. So, I kinda want the parts to look similar, but I want them also to look different, clearly unique in any way possible. Feel free to download the image and draw on the sketch the armor suggestion. I am interested in seeing how it looks. We could do a warship variation, much like Meteorafallen did texture-wise for the Sovereign Class.
Jimmy - Thanks! I'm flattered to hear that! Hopefully you won't be disappointed with the result. It'll be awhile before I get the ship model started though, because I gotta get the sketches done to kinda get an idea of what I want the ship to look like.
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I know, I know! Double posting in my own thread. More people need to post on this thing.
Anyway, here's the latest sketch I've been working on. Decided to do an "Unnamed" style blueprint of the Dorsal view. Going to go with the same style for all views, including a new starboard sketch. anyway, comment if you like, or don't like. Suggestions or advice welcome.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Poseidon%20Class/PDV003.jpg)
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Sorry haven't commented before. I'd actually forgotten about the Poseidon-class, and I like your idea of redoing it to look less like a kitbash. One of my past favorites. Now I gotta go hunt down the old one. :P
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(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Poseidon%20Class/PDV003.jpg)
impressive!
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,,,,,,,,,,,, and I like your idea of redoing it to look less like a kitbash. One of my past favorites.,,,,,,,,,,,,
I agree with that. After looking at this latest diagram, I think it would give the ship an overall balance by making the saucer section about 20 to 25% bigger.
When you look at it it sort of looks like a Sov separated, looking at the overall sizing. I know the sizing of the vessels are different, but I think that would be one thing that would help make it not look like a kitbash.
However you do it it will look great. always liked the concept too.
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I think the aft tips of the nacelles should come to a bit of a point, to balance off the front end.
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This is the issue that I am having with the secondary hull on the Rigel Class
[Edit: Pics at the end of the thread]
As you can see, the dorsal side of the saucer does not quite match the image, while the ventral side matches just fine. I know I dealt with this issue on the last version of the Rigel model I had, but I can't remember for the life of me how I fixed the problem. And it's getting frustrating, because this is what's holding this project up :(
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It's probably because the edges of the ship's neck aren't modeled in yet. I make that my next step and then move things around vertex by vertex as necessary.
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You have set the top part of the sec hull at the height of the neck spine, it needs be at the line below the one it's at now. Don't beat yourself up if schems don't match up between them 100%, it's normal.
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yeah, I was using a scaling tool to try and make the secondary hull match cleanly. Clearly, it didn't work. I have to wonder if I should maybe "flatten" the topside of the hull so that it does match, or just assume that the top part of the hull is where the neck/spine will be and simply extrude the faces of that side so that it works out that way.
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yeah, I was using a scaling tool to try and make the secondary hull match cleanly. Clearly, it didn't work. I have to wonder if I should maybe "flatten" the topside of the hull so that it does match, or just assume that the top part of the hull is where the neck/spine will be and simply extrude the faces of that side so that it works out that way.
On the aft top part of the sec hull object you have, you're following the topmost line which is the neck spine. The line directly below it is the sec hull's one. My suggestion would be to throw a box in first (or model the neck and spine) that is the width of the neck, and line the sec hull up that way.
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Lining the secondary hull with the spine wasn't intentional. But I see what you're suggesting and will try it. Hopefully it'll fix the problem.
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New pics. Having a hell of a time coming up with a way to create an Ambassador-style aft bay. Any suggestions on how to model it in?
[Edit: New pics at the end of the tread]
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Under the circumstances, I would have box-modeled your secondary hull with a squished-into-an-oval sphere, adjusting the shape into order by moving the verts with soft selection enabled. Following that, I'd proboolean-subtract the deflector dish and lower-aft cutout. After cleaning up and optimizing the result, I'd then build the pylons (and extrusion they're connected to) separately and union-proboolean those into the secondary hull. Then, I'd clean that up, and all should be well afterwords. Proceed at your discretion from there, but I'd recommend cutting out the saucer pylon then extruding it out from the secondary hull.
...Make sense?
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Here are some ROUGH renders of the Rigel Class as I have re-imagined it. Some details still need tweaking. Nacelles need tweaking, pylons need adjusting, neck needs adjusting. But this is generally where I want the Rigel Class to be in terms of design.
[Edit: New Pics at end of thread]
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Nice!
Very similar to the Ambassador.
Good work.
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I really love it Brex! But how about sweeping the pylons back slightly, keep everything the same height but sweep them back by a few degrees?
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I'd prefer less Ambassador looking pylons, perhaps sweep them up and back like DJ's Orion.
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I had intended for the pylon uprights to look similar to the Galaxy class, but clearly the angle of attack isn't steep enough. Should be easy to fix. As for the other suggestion, link to the Orion class mentioned please?
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I like it a lot! :thumbsup:
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Okay, updated the Rigel some. Built new nacelles. I like these much better. Also swept the pylon (horizontals) back a little further, to match the angle on the Orion class. Also adjusted the pylon uprights, so that their forward leaning looks more prominent. Adjusted the pylon/shuttle area (purple section) so that it better matches with the secondary hull (Neon Green section).
At this point, I'm starting to get the "feels right" feeling. As in, this is what I wanted out of the Rigel. Smoothing groups to be added after I clean up the different parts. Finishing details to be added later (such as lifeboat hatches, cargo hatches on the secondary hull, additional phaser strips, and torpedo bays fore and aft). If the poly count isn't too, too high, I may even go in and model in the remaining windows on the hull, and even the shield grid. Anyway, enjoy the pics.
[Edit: New Pics at end of Thread]
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Looks good to me. Certainly nothing to complain about. Cookied :)
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Now that is exactly what I had in my head. Great job Brex! I love the nacelles too
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Looking good. It does now have a more fluid look.
Cookie.
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Good job dude!
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Okay, combined the Saucer, Secondary Hull, and Shuttlebay/Pylons sections. Also added smoothing groups, and refined the mesh a little. Nacelles and aft torpedo bay the only sections still needing attaching.
[Edit: New Pics @ End of Thread]
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Not bad at all. I think the aft torpedo looks okay, but I think it might be better to place it in the "neck" just below the impulse engine. If at all possible, level with the forward torpedo tube. If you need a canon reason, it might be easier to load torpedoes between the two tubes, for quicker access and what not :P
Cookied.
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Actually, I think the aft torpedo launcher would look better halfway down on the dorsal side of the secondary hull as a twin launcher system. That ventral tube could be used for deploying mines.
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I think she is spot on Brex
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Bloody hell. that skype call you made with me has really paid off hasn't it brex, Well done old chap!
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Thanks guys. I realized that, while I was sleeping, the photon torpedo launchers are cavernous. They're not supposed to be bigger than a coffin case. So, I'm gonna resize them, put them in better scale. And once done, that will hopefully allow the aft bay to fit where it's supposed to go. And thanks for the compliments!
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I must say, this looks great.
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:eek holy shizznit, cube!
where the hell ya been??? lol
youre a blast from the past :)
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Okay. Mesh is nearly complete. I've got some depressions to add to the nacelles. And still debating on whether to model in the windows or not. I'll give it a try and see how it looks and works out. If they work, I'll keep 'em. If not, I'll texture them in. As of right now, poly count is 18,826.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniDorsal.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniBttm.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniStar.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniBow.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniAft.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniPerspec1.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/UniPerspec2.jpg)
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very nice!
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very nice!
Agree with Jimmy, Brex you are doing an outstanding job on this one! Only problem I see is a smoothing error on the pylon, but it looks to me like some unwelded vertices. Hope you take care of that!
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cookie :thumbsup:
i dont recommend modeling in the widows. save your nitpick details for textures
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@eclipse, it's a smoothing error. I had it fixed at one point, but had to undo something, and I guess I must've undone the fix. Basically that poly is actually touching two others, and all three are the same smoothing group. Easily fixed when I go back and change the smoothing group of the poly in question XD
@CyAn1d3: Awwwww, party pooper :(. Was hoping to see how it would look with the windows modeled in. Would've looked cool. Not to mention easier to handle, since I have such a hard time making windows fit in as textures.
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@CyAn1d3: Awwwww, party pooper :(. Was hoping to see how it would look with the windows modeled in. Would've looked cool. Not to mention easier to handle, since I have such a hard time making windows fit in as textures.
it CAN be a pain, BUT there are methods to make this easier.
what are you working in for textures? corel? PS?
you can use paths in PS, find a font with the capitol "I" thats a box with rounded corners (ironically theres a trek font that has that character) and type them in. ive been doing it that way for years.
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I use PS. Never tried using paths before. Not entirely sure how to use them.
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I use PS. Never tried using paths before. Not entirely sure how to use them.
its essentially the pen tool, but up in the top left it gives you the option to draw the path only instead of the shape.
draw the path out, grab the type tool and type on the path.
JUST REMEMBER:
that the point you START the path, is where the text will justify from.
it can be a bit of a pain to learn, but once you get it down your windows will look in perfect alignment
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*snicker* you use the lettering as windows cheat, too, huh? yes, it works. I had to adjust kerning and leading to prevent overlaps. even old paintshop works with that trick.
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*snicker* you use the lettering as windows cheat, too, huh? yes, it works. I had to adjust kerning and leading to prevent overlaps. even old paintshop works with that trick.
only on big ships. it just takes less time that way, and i still get good results.
the connie i did by hand
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Well, before I try cheating with letters and fonts and paths and get a headache because I can't get it to work, I'm gonna show you what I've done with a few modeled in. If you still don't approve, I'll.... :bitch:...texture.....them in.
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Well I'm sure it'd look good with them modeled in. Thing is, that will probably add quite a bit to your poly count. 18k is a pretty good number on the high end. Try not to push it much further.
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Well I'm sure it'd look good with them modeled in. Thing is, that will probably add quite a bit to your poly count. 18k is a pretty good number on the high end. Try not to push it much further.
:yeahthat:
hence why 99% of the ships have textured windows.
ina perfect world we wouldnt have to stress poly counts tho...
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yeah, the poly count shot up by 6K with just those few modeled in. Which sucks, because I like the way it looks. But, CyAn1d3, you're gonna have to show me by video what you mean. Not sure I can make windows the way you suggested without seeing how to do it. I'm more of a visual person XD
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make a video? :hithead: wtf is that? i have NO clue how to do that lol
ill see what i can do, keep an eye on the tutorials section
also another thing to keep in mind while modeling, is nine times out of ten, the poly count will DOUBLE when the model is converted to NIF, as BC works off of triangulated polys.
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I actually look at the tri count when I model just for that reason. Every time I quote a poly count, I'm actually saying a tri count.
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First off Cyan1d3, if you have Skype, that would work. Secondly, when I quote a poly count, I'm using the tri count in max
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yeah, the poly count shot up by 6K with just those few modeled in. Which sucks, because I like the way it looks. ,,,,,,,,
Even though it's not poly-worthy, the effort is appreciated. I also like how they came out.
Maybe have an observation lounge with some detail in it.
She is looking great so far. :thumbsup:
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Brex, how many segments does 90 degs of the window curve have?
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4 or 8. I don't remember right off the top of my head.
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4 or 8. I don't remember right off the top of my head.
3 is enough, 4 at most per 90 degs ;) more won't make a difference in visibility due to the size of them.
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yeah, hadn't thought of that. I could go back and redo them with just 3 or 4. Still waiting to hear from CyAn1d3 on whether he's got skype and is willing to show me the texture method XD
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naw i dont have it.
ill whip you up a tutorial. hang on
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DOUBLE POST!! :P :funny
heres your tut.
it will be my most downloaded file this month >.<
http://www.gamefront.com/files/22000590/Tutorial.rar
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Okay, Rigel is pretty much finished for the mesh. Unless you guys see things that need tweaking. I'm not sure if I want to add phasers to the nacelle pylons themselves. What do you guys think?
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If you do add them, I'd keep them ventral and outboard. Something that would have a similar arc to the ones on the top of the nacelles.
Otherwise, looks good! Looking forward to textures. ;)
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She looks great but does need some ventral phaser coverage
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I'd say, go for adding the nacelle pylon phasers. The aft portion of the ship is rather lacking in terms of phaser coverage. Overall, great job Brex :)
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Add them.
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Very nice work mate, looks like a good mesh :thumbsup:
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Okay, here she is, the completed mesh. Comments are welcome. Unwrapping is the next step. Roughly 18K in polies.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal01.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal02.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal03.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal04.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal05.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal06.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal07.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal08.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelFinal09.jpg)
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I like the pylon details. I see that you decided against additional phasers?
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No, the phasers are on there....
They look pretty obvious in the shots.
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Very well done Brex!
I look forward to seeing the textures on this beauty.
Cookie.
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No, the phasers are on there....
They look pretty obvious in the shots.
*facepalm*
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*facepalm*
*pats farshot on the back* it's ok. You had a long day.
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Love the ship Brex! The nacelles are my favourite part
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Love the ship Brex! The nacelles are my favourite part
Same here, she has turned out real nice. Great job. :thumbsup:
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Any know any good UVW Unwrap tutorials? blaXXer's has all the pictures missing, and MarkyD's video has been deleted from the provided URL in his tutorial.
The reason I ask, is, I'm trying to find a way to make the RCS thrusters on my saucer planar so I can properly texture in the thruster assemblies without them looking distorted, stretched, or misaligned. If I have to, I can make them separate, mappable objects for this, but I'd rather not do that as it does complicate things later on. Not to mention, they'd have to have their own separate texture map, and I wouldn't want to do that either.
All help would be appreciated.
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Any know any good UVW Unwrap tutorials? blaXXer's has all the pictures missing, and MarkyD's video has been deleted from the provided URL in his tutorial.
The reason I ask, is, I'm trying to find a way to make the RCS thrusters on my saucer planar so I can properly texture in the thruster assemblies without them looking distorted, stretched, or misaligned. If I have to, I can make them separate, mappable objects for this, but I'd rather not do that as it does complicate things later on. Not to mention, they'd have to have their own separate texture map, and I wouldn't want to do that either.
All help would be appreciated.
message adonis, him and DJ taught me everything i know on that subject.
OR go to my WIP thread where DJ basically breaks it down to me on how to prep the model:
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,5987.80.html
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hmm, I forgot to the the XForm Reset before I started unwrapping the saucer. That might explain why I'm having issues with getting the RCS Thrusters to planar map properly with the saucer as a single object. So, going to have to redo the unwrap. And since I don't have a pre-unwrapped mesh anymore, I'm gonna have to literally clear the Unwrap and start over :hithead: :bitch: :banghead:
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hmm, I forgot to the the XForm Reset before I started unwrapping the saucer. That might explain why I'm having issues with getting the RCS Thrusters to planar map properly with the saucer as a single object. So, going to have to redo the unwrap. And since I don't have a pre-unwrapped mesh anymore, I'm gonna have to literally clear the Unwrap and start over :hithead: :bitch: :banghead:
You know dude, once upon a time I did show you how to map parts of a mesh separately into the same map ;)
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You did. But then we had a falling out, and then I stopped modelling for awhile. Then I tried to block BCC from my mind. Yeah. Stuff got forgotted. But, I'm relearning now. My question now is, if I split the ship up into sections, like DJ and you do, and then reintegrate them later on, the UVW mapping coordinates remain the same yes? Even if I were to combine maps in order to save on the number of textures? For example, if I did the saucer into top and bottom, mapped them, and then re-integrated them to combine the total Unwrap, the coordinates would still be saved yes?
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You did. But then we had a falling out, and then I stopped modelling for awhile. Then I tried to block BCC from my mind. Yeah. Stuff got forgotted. But, I'm relearning now. My question now is, if I split the ship up into sections, like DJ and you do, and then reintegrate them later on, the UVW mapping coordinates remain the same yes? Even if I were to combine maps in order to save on the number of textures? For example, if I did the saucer into top and bottom, mapped them, and then re-integrated them to combine the total Unwrap, the coordinates would still be saved yes?
you can even collapse the stack and make subtle changes to the mesh, then apply another unwrap and the coordinates will remain the same. i has to do this for the spacedock
its how im doing two separate models, but technically only mapping one
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You did. But then we had a falling out, and then I stopped modelling for awhile. Then I tried to block BCC from my mind. Yeah. Stuff got forgotted. But, I'm relearning now. My question now is, if I split the ship up into sections, like DJ and you do, and then reintegrate them later on, the UVW mapping coordinates remain the same yes? Even if I were to combine maps in order to save on the number of textures? For example, if I did the saucer into top and bottom, mapped them, and then re-integrated them to combine the total Unwrap, the coordinates would still be saved yes?
As long as you keep the material assignment correct to the way you mapped and put everything together, yes.
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Okay, so, when it bring sup that dialog box asking me about Material IDs, which option should I select?
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I'm actually liking this better than the real model.. it was at wolf 359 wasnt it???
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Yes it was. There will be two ships: USS Akagi and USS Tolstoy
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Okay, so, when it bring sup that dialog box asking me about Material IDs, which option should I select?
ID 1 of course, you don't need others for ships ;)
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So, basically the default selection in the dialog Box.
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Double Post: First textures on the Rigel. Windows on the saucer edge will get redone. Not happy with them. Still learning the trick that cyanide taught me.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex01.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex02.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex03.jpg)
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Looking good so far Brex!
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Double Post: First textures on the Rigel. Windows on the saucer edge will get redone. Not happy with them. Still learning the trick that cyanide taught me.
if your panel lines are right you just have to make the path follow JUST BELOW it. Photoshop will do the rest ;)
another note, i like your aztec pattern, but its repeats kinda stand out. if you lightened the darker panels a bit, or add another set of patterns next to it and condense it.
otherwise, she looks good dude :thumbsup:
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It's nice to see this ship getting its textures on. :thumbsup:
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Also, make the windows more varied, mostly in sets of 2 or 1 for example:
I II I II II I II I II II I I
And make the window placements realistic- no one wants to be DIRECTLY next to the maneuvering thruster or other equipment.
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no one wants to be DIRECTLY next to the maneuvering thruster or other equipment.
y not? they would be the "cheap" apartments... lower ranking individuals and what have you :angel
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Like I said, I don't like the window placements, so I plan to fix them.
CyAn1d3: For some reason, the text bar sits OUTSIDE the path that I'm using. It's really aggravating....
As for the Aztecing, Nix helped me figure out that I used the wrong settings on Polar Coordinates. I did Polar to Rectangular rather than Rectangular to Polar. Hence why the Aztecing's looking so repeated. I'm going to fix it tomorrow. Along with the windows ;)
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Like I said, I don't like the window placements, so I plan to fix them.
CyAn1d3: For some reason, the text bar sits OUTSIDE the path that I'm using. It's really aggravating....
As for the Aztecing, Nix helped me figure out that I used the wrong settings on Polar Coordinates. I did Polar to Rectangular rather than Rectangular to Polar. Hence why the Aztecing's looking so repeated. I'm going to fix it tomorrow. Along with the windows ;)
Open your character window, there should be an option to flip it. You can also adjust yoir spacimg and fine tune your character size. This was in the tutorial mate.
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Knew I forgot something lol
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Double Post: Does anyone have recommendations for window settings, ie colors, spacing, etc?
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Double Post: Does anyone have recommendations for window settings, ie colors, spacing, etc?
whatever looks right to YOU.
stick with black to start, its easier to majic wand them to light them, and play around with the effects a bit ;)
also figure out how many decks there are.... that helps too
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The only thing that looks right to me is the pattern I used for the windows, and the number of "decks" I used. But the space between individual windows looks wrong (don't know how to fix that with the character window), the windows are too square because of the size of the fonts that have to be used to make this work, and then there's the fact that they have borders because the font has it, and I can't get rid of it. And then the coloring of the lit windows doesn't look right. I want the colors to be similar to Wiley's Akira windows, but I can't seem to find the right shade of blue....
I'm wondering if the path trick will work with pre-made shapes from another PSD file....
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But the space between individual windows looks wrong (don't know how to fix that with the character window)
there is a tool on your character window. it has an A and a V over an arrow.
this adjusts your spacing.
...the windows are too square because of the size of the fonts that have to be used to make this work, and then there's the fact that they have borders because the font has it, and I can't get rid of it.
did you even google the font i suggested to you in the tutorial? it has the rounded corners and NO border.
And then the coloring of the lit windows doesn't look right. I want the colors to be similar to Wiley's Akira windows, but I can't seem to find the right shade of blue....
you gotta find that one on your own dude
I'm wondering if the path trick will work with pre-made shapes from another PSD file....
you can make shapes snap to it, but it wont automatically curve it like the type trick does
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You mean, Federation Starfleet square. I have that one. I used it. When it gets small, it looks square
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what resolution are you making your textures?
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2048x2048
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thats strange, because i use that res and ive never had problems with them getting squared?
i did the windows for my MKII galaxy using this method, those arent squared :idk:
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I'll post pics tomorrow.
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Wait...Fed Starfleet Squared? Isn't that the one they use for the registries???? If so I think there might be a solution...Search for the font called Jefferies, and when you use that, use the stroke key, set it to where it looks right, and then merge that into an empty layer.
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2048x2048
Would you show me the unwraps please?
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Wait...Fed Starfleet Squared?
no no no. i use the BOLD Starfleet. its the SAME font as the regestry fonts, just without the outline to it.
it has rounded edged "I"s.
ive ALWAYS used that font for my windows since wiley taught me the trick years ago.
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That'll work too lol
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I've got the Bold type as well. So that should work. Only problem is, I already rasterized the damn layers -_-;
Here's my Unwrap Adonis: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rigel01.jpg
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Leave your windows in vector. Only rasterize them when you go to light them and do the alpha channel, wich should be your last step in the texture map. Id reccomend leaving as much as possible in vector if you use it to draw textures.
and a reccomendation for your unwrap, you can layer your escape podmapping and only have to draw one in Ps.
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Yeah, I was thinking about that, but then, I wanted the escape pod to have individual numbers. Which I can't do if they're all stacked together. BUT, I should be able to fix their orientations so that they're not all friggin crooked...
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Here's my Unwrap Adonis: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rigel01.jpg
The unwrap is good, however, you could save a lot on the poly count without any loss in visuals if you leave the edges with more segments and as flatter the saucer gets you can weld verts together. Like on my Connie's saucer:
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv1/NSAdonis/ST/TMPConnie_Textures_40.jpg)
This approach works wonders with spherical objects too when it comes to poly count reduction ;)
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I considered that approach, but decided to not worry about it. In tight edges like that, it is difficult to chamfer the edges without them being too small to work with. Besides, the count I'd under 18J.A.B in face, it is around 17.6k now.
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I considered that approach, but decided to not worry about it. In tight edges like that, it is difficult to chamfer the edges without them being too small to work with. Besides, the count I'd under 18J.A.B in face, it is around 17.6k now.
I always mesh out saucers in their entirety with the max number of segments, and then weld them away as needed ;) This is more of a technical "as many polies as is needed" thing. It's a mark of a good game modeler :)
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True, but to do what you suggest would mean scrapping the model and starting over, because the lifeboats are modeled in, and welding Vers would affect the shape.of the saucer around them. I'll keep this in mind for my next mesh.
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True, but to do what you suggest would mean scrapping the model and starting over, because the lifeboats are modeled in, and welding Vers would affect the shape.of the saucer around them. I'll keep this in mind for my next mesh.
You can leave the squares around them intact, and weld the rest, and it wouldn't show ;)
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I doubt Adonis suggestions are meant as a complaint in any way. Merely, as suggestions on how you could do to make improvements (either now, or on future models). That being said, I love the work you've done so far.
Far too often, great designs are limited by sub-standard modelling and/or texturing. Just look at STO's ships. Some of the designs look pretty good, but the models are quite ugly (both in textures, and model detail).
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I know. That's why I said I'd keep this trick in mind for future meshes. I'm going to leave the Rigel as it is since I've already mapped it and started the textures. I've definitely got more works planned, so I'd definitely take his advice to heart ;)
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I know. That's why I said I'd keep this trick in mind for future meshes. I'm going to leave the Rigel as it is since I've already mapped it and started the textures. I've definitely got more works planned, so I'd definitely take his advice to heart ;)
Oh, there's a way to do it without breaking the mapping:
Do the welding on the unwrap first and then repeat the same on the model and it won't break the mapping ;)
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I'll keep that in mind if I ever need to use that trick in the future.
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Double Post. Updated the windows using the RIGHT font, and made adjustments to the windows. Also redid the Aztecing.
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If you follow the Ent-D's windows, most of them are in sets of 1 or 2, and very few of them are in 3s or 4s, even 5s for the engineering hull.
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-sighs- fine... I'll delete some windows tomorrow... Anything else while?
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I think, for the saucer's edge, perhaps bringing the windows away from the edge, just a bit. That's just my opinion though.
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Ok, windows will be scrapped and done over...again. Anything else?
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Brex these are all just suggestions, do the windows how you want them to be!
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Then no one will download the ship :P
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If I still had BC installed, I would. As is thou, all I can do is provide suggestions and encouragement :)
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Windows redone, and Registry added. Windows still need beveling. And for some reason, I can't get the illumination maps to render in 3D Max.
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
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Windows looking good.
Ship looking good.
All good.
Cookie :D
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Did you set up the alpha channels?
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I know probably on one ever notices but I love how you have the registry. Love its shape and where it is
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Did you set up the alpha channels?
Yes. And I saved the tga file as a 32 bit file. I also applied the map in 3d max in the Self-Illumination section. I set it up as Image Alpha and RGB Output as Alpha as Grey. And yet, for some reason, when I render the image, the windows don't light up...
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Did you turn down the ambient light in your scene?
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Did you turn down the ambient light in your scene?
Yep. tried everything. I reset the texture and removed the materials, then reapplied the textures, starting with the self-illumination map. That seemed to fix the problem. Whatever it was.
Latest pictures:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex01.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex02.jpg)
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:yay:
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Nice! How many maps does this ship have!
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2 so far. Registry map and saucer map. I've also added the shield grid, for the most part, to the ventral side of the saucer. Just needs a little tweaking.
As far as I'm concerned, the saucer's pretty much done in terms of textures. there are some dead spaces I'd like to fill on the deck two module and around the bridge, but I'm not entirely sure what to put there. Any suggestions?
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Some bigger windows suggesting VIP areas etc
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This ship is smaller than an Ambassador and a Galaxy Class. I doubt it'd have anything large as a "VIP area". I'm done with windows. I'll add any other detail suggestions in the dead areas around/on Deck 2.
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I understand you are "done with windows" for the saucer, but you might still consider adding a small amount of windows to the edge of the "deck two" area? Looks a bit barren there. I also assume, that when the textures become more finalized, there will be black windows as well, and not lit up "like a christmas tree" ? :P
EDIT: Suggestion (for clarity):
(http://s15.postimage.org/3rzwfcxpn/Rigel_edit.png) (http://postimage.org/)
photo upload (http://postimage.org/)
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This ship is smaller than an Ambassador and a Galaxy Class. I doubt it'd have anything large as a "VIP area". I'm done with windows. I'll add any other detail suggestions in the dead areas around/on Deck 2.
And what about the teleporter pads (two forward, two aft both dorsal and ventral on the saucer alone, two more on the nacelle pylons both dorsal and ventral - that's the usual setup), sensor strips (there's always one on top of deck 2 around the bridge and one on the bottom - that's the Galaxy class's setup; also, you could add some nice details to the section where the saucer "splits" instead of that grid pattern to make it look more like a sensor strip ;) ), maintenance hatches (you don't need much of these really, there are places where maintenance crews exit the ship to reach the outer hull easily), cargo bay doors (the Galaxy class has two on the ventral saucer and another two on the sec hull right below the deflector, however, since this is an older ship, you could make some harder lined square panels on the ventral of the saucer to denote them and stencil the edges with a red L shaped stripe to denote them), stenciling (the most prominent of those you know of are the half-circle red stripes at each end of a phaser strip, but that's only the beginning really), escape pod stencils (since you modeled them and mapped each separate, right?).
I know, I'm a menace :D
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Don't forget some docking ports!
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A cookie for both Brex, and "Adonis, the true Phantom Menace" :)
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Okay, I totally stepped into that one Adonis. I'll post some Ventral and Dorsal images for you to download and draw, like DT has done, your suggestions. And as for stuff going on the secondary hull, I'm not that far yet. I'm focusing on the saucer only right now ;)
Here you go Adonis
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTexDor.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTexVen.jpg
DT: That was the kind of suggestion I was looking for actually. And as for the windows being all lit, they're staying that way for now until I can make the windows look more like WC's Akira windows, which are the best ones I've seen ever.
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Okay, I totally stepped into that one Adonis. I'll post some Ventral and Dorsal images for you to download and draw, like DT has done, your suggestions. And as for stuff going on the secondary hull, I'm not that far yet. I'm focusing on the saucer only right now ;)
I also concur with DT's and Killa's suggestions. You could add some color variations around the bridge, and the saucer, both in base coloring and in aztecs (I kinda stopped doing two colors a long time ago, I have a minimum of one base and 2 aztec colors these days), even if the difference in shades isn't big, but it'll give depth to the ship. ;)
I have added some (not all) of the stuff I was talking about. The bottom of the new dorsal pic shows an example of the side sensor strips on one of my own ships, the ventral has a simple detail example of a teleporter pad, and I've added the L shaped red stencil to only one of the cargo doors.
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv1/NSAdonis/ST/RigelTexDorAd.jpg)
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv1/NSAdonis/ST/RigelTexVenAd.jpg)
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Great suggestions there Adonis! Give the ship a more working feel to it.
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I really like those suggestions Adonis. Might need to thin out the amount of windows in the forward area of the dorsal saucer if you decide to have those "pads" there.
In the end, it's ofcourse Brex's decision. But I certainly encourage you (Brex) to take note of Adonis examples :)
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Looks good. You may also want to turn the lights off in some of the upper in the upper saucer.
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Okay, here's what I've got so far.
[Edit: New Pics at end of thread]
Adonis, I'm going to have to get you to show me a tutorial on making exposed sensor pallets, because I've never made them, and wouldn't know how to begin.
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Cookie time. Looking better and better with each update :)
Will be fun seeing you tackle the texturing of the stardrive. I assume you'll be leaning more towards the Ambassador style stardrive (possibility of the "fake ribbing" on the neck") ?
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well this little baby will be going in my install, its a very beautiful ship and i look forward to both seeing her ingame and any future designs you have in the works! :thumbsup: *cookie launched*
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Thanks Flare!
@DT: I'm not even done with the saucer yet and you're already looking toward the stardrive section :facepalm:
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Ofcourse :P
I could rephrase my last bit, with simply stating: "It will be interesting to see your take on the look of the stardrive area, once you've finished the saucer."
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Quick to BC ! :yay:
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Adonis, I'm going to have to get you to show me a tutorial on making exposed sensor pallets, because I've never made them, and wouldn't know how to begin.
Start out with the background color layer (that's the curved square on my one), then work out the mechanical part by using bevels (those layers are always black, but the fill is set to 0%, so only the bevel effect gets shown; use the background color at least instead of the black that is used for the darker part of it, it'll make it look better), each new height level is a new layer with the bevels. The last layers are colored panels, and this is all in one layer folder in photoshop (I think PSP can do those too, I use layer folders a lot to make my life easier to find stuff in the source files).
I always have named layer folders (you can see that with my Oberth, I've included the hulls source psd for making extra named variants)
I'll use the Oberth as a basis:
1) The first one is always called base, within it are the layers that make up the base color of a ship (and the layers are named with the hex codes of the color used). With the Oberth, it contains a single layer that is completely filled with color, hex code EFEFEF (and that's the name of the layer)
2) second folder is aztec, this one might contain subfolders (like with the Excal Galors for example, I can find the panelling i need much easier that way) like saucer dorsal, saucer ventral, bridge, neck, etc. each color used is a separate layer, might even contain a source folder where the paths are, and so on and they get turned off of course.
3) is the teal panelling, has one main folder for the Oberth's version and one for the Pegasus (since the coloring of those panels is different), and they contain each layers for each individual color used, named by the colors hex codes, and I just turn on the one I need.
4) is the panel lines, separated into subfolders by groups, same as with the example above with the aztecing. Each contains layers where the circular segments are and the rest is kept in their original vector states. The layer folders get the opacity changed, not the layers themselves.
5) would be details. Like impulse engines, mechanics, stencils and so on. Each of them has a layer folder within containing the layers that make it up.
6) would be ID's, the pennants, stripes, regs and names. each subfolder is named for the ship in question (Biko, Oberth, Grissom, etc.), and the pennants and regs are both in their individual layer folders below them.
7) would be the folder containing the windows. has a base, lit and unlit subfolder (I think you know which is for what ;) )
8) is the specularity that has all copy of all of the foldering I mentioned so far, and the colors are changed to denote what i want it to look like (in max, the best way to see how a specular map would look like is to apply it to both spec color and spec level, and set the spec color to RGB and the level to opaque)
9) is the fake shadowing
10) is the illumination that goes to the diffuse map alpha; black is the base color layer, then come the spotlight max renders, and the rest are each layers of a lighter shade of gray. This folder gets rasterized in a copy of the entire map and copy-pasted in the alpha channel before saving.
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Okay, after taking Adonis' suggestions, here's what I've come up with so far.
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
Any other suggestions?
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a few TOO many cargo doors ventral side, but thats just my opinion. otherwise good thus far, keep it up :thumbsup:
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I would remove the port and starboard midships hatches and also perhaps change them to the clamshell type featured on the ventral saucer and secondary hull of the Galaxy and Intrepid classes.
I see your Rigel as a sort of step between the two and it would help tie in your ship in with two well established ones
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The Rigel Class is pre-clam shell cargo doors :P
Not to mention that the Rigel Class it's intended as a transition between the Ambassador and Galaxy Classes.
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Double Post. New Pics. Awaiting Suggestions. Deflector needs work. The way it's mapped, it's not working out the way I want. I think it's because of the symmetry mapping. May need some help with it. Anyway, enjoy.
[Edit: New Pics at end of thread]
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Double Post. New Pics. Awaiting Suggestions. Deflector needs work. The way it's mapped, it's not working out the way I want. I think it's because of the symmetry mapping. May need some help with it. Anyway, enjoy.
ill beat adonis to it this time, whats the unwrap look like?
i use symmetry mapping all the time
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Ask and ye shall receive: http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rigel02.jpg
I will say this though, Adonis' trick for the sensor pallets, works for a lot of things. I'm using it everywhere where it works.
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Looks like you just mapped it from the front even though it angles down. You're going to get a bit of distortion in the texture when it's applied, but it's workable.
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i would suggest putting your nacelles and pylons on its own map. youll get more detail in the textures, and some other big peices as well, also soft select the center of your dish (where the extrusion is) in your mapping and "center" it in the object along the cut axis, thisll make any patterns transition smoothly
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Man the detail on this thing is rocking so far, the lifeboats for one are just awesome. Will be looking forward to her completion.
Have a cookie for some great work. :thumbsup:
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Quick to BC download :bow:
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Loving her Brex!
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Might I suggest adding phasers to the forward ventral of the secondary hull and the stern under the shuttle bay to improve the ships weapons arcs. Other then that I'd say its fairly close to perfect.
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think that is allready to late as he is in the texturing phase.
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i would suggest putting your nacelles and pylons on its own map. youll get more detail in the textures, and some other big peices as well, also soft select the center of your dish (where the extrusion is) in your mapping and "center" it in the object along the cut axis, thisll make any patterns transition smoothly
Yeah, I was thinking of putting the nacelles on their own map, or even on the ID map, as I have PLENTY of room on the registry map for them. As for the pylons, I wouldn't know where to "cut off" the pylons between the two maps. They kinda blend into the shuttle area. I've never used Soft Selection before, so not sure how to do it :\
Man the detail on this thing is rocking so far, the lifeboats for one are just awesome. Will be looking forward to her completion.
Have a cookie for some great work. :thumbsup:
Thank you :)
Might I suggest adding phasers to the forward ventral of the secondary hull and the stern under the shuttle bay to improve the ships weapons arcs. Other then that I'd say its fairly close to perfect.
think that is allready to late as he is in the texturing phase.
:yeahthat:
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As for the pylons, I wouldn't know where to "cut off" the pylons between the two maps. They kinda blend into the shuttle area.
then dont split them between maps. :hithead:
hold on...
EDIT:
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/Cyanide1700/Rigel02copy.jpg)
select the faces that you want to break off in the UVW editor, collapse the stack (convert to editable poly) break off the polys in the geometry that are mapped on the map you want to break off seperate (wich SHOULD be selected for you since you did it in the editor ;) ), apply a uvw unwrap to both and presto. done with map coordinates preserved.
I've never used Soft Selection before, so not sure how to do it :\
google mate. im POSITIVE theres a modeling tutorial for it.
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im really loving this ship more and more! cant wait to add her to my install :)
one quick question tho - are all the windows going to be lit? or will you have some lit and some unlit? seems having some unlit would be better? just my personal opinion tho...
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then dont split them between maps. :hithead:
hold on...
EDIT:
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/Cyanide1700/Rigel02copy.jpg)
select the faces that you want to break off in the UVW editor, collapse the stack (convert to editable poly) break off the polys in the geometry that are mapped on the map you want to break off seperate (wich SHOULD be selected for you since you did it in the editor ;) ), apply a uvw unwrap to both and presto. done with map coordinates preserved.
google mate. im POSITIVE theres a modeling tutorial for it.
Already split the Secondary Hull into two maps. The Nacelles, the pylons, and the shuttle "landing strip" (basically the parts of the pylons that wrap around the aft end of the ship) are one map. The rest of the secondary hull (the oval cylinder and neck) is one map. And I've modified the Unwrap (three times) to better use the space available for the deflector dish, shuttlebay doors, impulse manifold, and dorsal spine.
im really loving this ship more and more! cant wait to add her to my install :)
one quick question tho - are all the windows going to be lit? or will you have some lit and some unlit? seems having some unlit would be better? just my personal opinion tho...
As of right now, all the windows are remaining lit until the finishing touches on the mesh are made, simply because it's easier for me to keep track of the way the ship looks with them all lit. When I get close to completing the textures, I will go back and add the finishing touches to the windows such as a pattern overlay, and change the color of the windows to a more bluish tint. At that same time, I'll select which windows will be unlit.
BTW, I'm looking for ideas/suggestions for the Aztec pattern on the secondary hull. I want something more unique than what I did with the saucer.
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I think maybe a modified version of the Constitution Refit secondary hull aztecs would be cool. Kind of like a "hearken" back to a classic look but not the exact same obviously.
You've done a magnificent job on this so far dude!
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At that same time, I'll select which windows will be unlit.
you should do a morse code pattern of one of the rows of windows so it spells out "SAM" lol :P
... .- --
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you should do a morse code pattern of one of the rows of windows so it spells out "SAM" lol cheeky
... .- --
Now why didn't I have that idea? *cookie*
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Pic Updates. Comments welcome.
[Edit: Pics at the end of the thread]
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i like style B impulse engine, personally...
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i like style B impulse engine, personally...
Agreed.
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^ What Jimmy and Shadowknight said.
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^ What Jimmy and Shadowknight said.
B
A looks nice, but B is right on.
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Great details :yay:
Go on :thumbsup:
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B is perfect
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Ths ship is beautiful and is definitely headed for my BC install. Please enjoy this oatmeal raisin cookie.
you should do a morse code pattern of one of the rows of windows so it spells out "SAM" lol :P
... .- --
Now why didn't I have that idea? *cookie*
Dang, I thought I was the only one who had this idea. :cry:
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B is the best, well done man,
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A looks more like the vents are superheated, personally A looks better ;P
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I reckon it should be blue to represent true TLE style. :P
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The B's have it. Impulse Engine Type B is based off of the outboard nacelles of the Enterprise-B/Lakota Refit. Added some minor details to the airlock and the underside of the ship. I could try changing the Impulse Engine to blue to see how it looks, but generally an impulse engine should be red, not blue. Blue indicates low energy. Sluggish performance :P Also, I need some ideas for the underside of the ship near the pylons. I may go mostly Ambassadorial style, but any other suggestions would be great.
And, Wiley....any suggestions on how to do a Constitution-esque aztec pattern on the secondary hull?
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
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Very nice. The only thing that I can see is that both registries on the saucer are too tiny they should be taking up about 25% more space based on the size of the ship.
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I love the attention to detail Brex and the reasoning behind the impulse engine. Good call.
Have you thought about where you are going to put secondary name and registry numbers?
I would suggest a registry above the phasers on the pylons, then a name on the dorsal surface of the port pylon and the full registry on the dorsal surface of the starboard pylon.
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yeah, I still need to finish the registry maps. There are supposed to be registries in the inside of the hull pennant along the left/right side of the secondary hull. And there is supposed to be secondary registries on the nacelles and pylons.
As for the registries on the saucer, they're as big as I can make them without having to break the saucer map back up, make new registry maps, and then redoing the saucer and registry textures to accommodate the changes. Plus 99% of all statistics are made up :P
Also, running into an issue with the shield grid. The way the secondary hull is split up, the top and bottom parts are not on the same scale as the sides. I'm wondering if there is a way to either scale the top and bottom so that they are "aligned" in size to the sides, or if there is a way to map a cylindrical object so that it is essentially a flat object.
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And, Wiley....any suggestions on how to do a Constitution-esque aztec pattern on the secondary hull?
Just jump into it. Subtlety and randomness of the panels is key- it's better to have smooth contrasts between the hull panels. Once you start, it will be better for me to give good criticism.
For reference:
http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/STMPEnterprise/STMPEnterpriseTop.htm
You can get a rough idea of aztec pattern. The engineering hull is mainly composed of basic Tetris-styled paneling, whereas the lowermost portion is completely different.
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What to put here:
[Edit: Pics at end of thread]
Suggestions?
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a phaser array! lol :P
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Something that can be textured in :P
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Aft torpedo launcher?
Just saw the texture part.
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Okay, I guess I should clarify. The underbelly is the only section you guys should be focusing on. Not the nacelle pylons and wrap around, not the aft torpedo bay (which is already in place). The area where the lifeboat hatches needs detail. I'm not sure what to put there.
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Maybe something reminiscent of the upper section of the Connie's engineering hull, and the detailing from the Excelsior's aft scoop.
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Well, a shield grid and some cargo bay doors (they are there on virtually all Fed ships that have that cutout) and they're on the near-vertical part of it.
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I have to agree with Adonis here. I think the cargo bays should be at least like the Galaxy trio though.
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I've been trying to do those cutouts, but for some reason, one side of the cut out doesn't seem to show up in renders. Not sure what the problem is. Could be an issue with the lighting of the cut out.
I wasn't sure what shape the cargo doors should be. I'm thinking rectangular. Possibly numbered. Maybe a few hull line cut outs. We'll see what I can come up with. Hopefully it'll work out.
Once I get this section done, and added the windows back in (I re-mapped the secondary hull, and I love the new unwrap much better), this part of the secondary hull will be done. After which I can focus on the registries and nacelles/pylons, and work towards getting everything finalized.
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put escape-pods (well visible) on this vessel is a great idea. :yay:
I have two questions :
1? What will be the number of the crew ?
2? What will be the number of escape-pods and their ability ?
I think taht the second depends on the first...
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1? What will be the number of the crew ?
The number of the crew is always greater then the amount of visible escape pods. Though one can easily expect a Titanic-esque disaster with the lack of escape pods for all of he passengers, but you can figure that ~10 people can fit into one. Example: ~400 visible escape pods for a crew of over 1000 on the Enterprise-D.
2? What will be the number of escape-pods and their ability ?
It looks like the final escape pod count is around 20-30 total pods. Crew could be around 150.
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Well said WC :bow:
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Also, escape pods are generally not the only method of leaving the ship in an emergency. You also have the transporter (if in range of a planet/another ship), as well as the shuttles.
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Yes, i'm agree with darkthunder. :yay:
I think that the escape-pods must be used when the ship is abandoned... :(
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Wiley is correct. There are a total of 24 escape pods, with the idea that each pod could hold a maximum of 10 to 12 people. Thus making the average crew complement around 250 people.
Here is an excerpt from the JoAT's entry for the Rigel Class by Suricata:
Type: Cruiser
First commissioned: 2345
Length: 498m
Width: 267m
Height: 91m
Decks: 24
Complement: 60 officers + 390 crew, evacuation limit: 1400
Speed: Warp 9 (cruise), Warp 9.4 (max.), Warp 9.6 (max. emergency)
Sublight speed: 0.7c (max.)
Armament: 7 Type IX collimated phaser arrays, 2 Mk 70 Direct-Fire photon torpedo tubes
Defense: CIDSS-1 primary force field and deflector control system
Embarked craft: 4 Work Bee general utility craft, 6 shuttlecraft (various classes), 2 shuttlepods (various classes)
The only problem is, the images that Suricata was able to give me, only showed escape pods on the dorsal side of the saucer. I've had to....guess, where the rest of them go. And then only provided enough for 250 people, not the suggested complement of 450. Plus, the size of the ship puts it just under 100 meters shorter than an Ambassador Class. So the Rigel Class is a good sized ship. However, this DOES present a problem now, as I would have to add escape pods to the mesh (at least another 10 to 15) in order to accommodate for the additional 200 personnel. I guess I should've studied the specs a little bit better before modeling in the lifeboats. Or do you think a crew of 250 is big enough for a ship of this size?
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I think it is too small if she's to be that big.
Instead of entertaining the thought of adding more escape pods, why not downsize the ship by changing the size of the windows?
However I love her as she is and don't think the escape pod or crew size is an issue you need worry about
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Hi,
It's never easy with this sort of subject :hithead:
I find few data on the Ambassador class and you can compare with Rigel class.
The debate and ideas are launched...
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj566/bdfd/Ambassadorclass.jpg)
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The debate and ideas are launched...
....for which has no place in this thread. The placement/location and the number of escape pods is up to the artist. Even the people who worked on the show make mistakes, and fan-arguments develop. :roll
Most likely an admin will say that any further discussion on the topic of escape pods vs. crew compliment should go to another thread.
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Not sure how valid those specifications are, but the Ambassador class is definitely a larger ship, by at least 70 meters. So, the Rigel Class will be scaled accordingly. But I think I'll just leave the escape pods as they are. If anyone complains, meh.
Okay, so think I've found a solution to the cut out issue on the underside of the secondary hull. I'm going to make the cut out a slight shade darker than the rest of the hull. That should make it stand out more. I'm also going to do 4 cargo bay doors on the horizontal near the escape pods, so that area will be the cargo area.
Once that's done, and I've got some more cut outs detailed in, the only thing left is windows and aztecing. I'm going to borrow from the TMP Connie a bit, but will also expand on it. After which, I can focus on the registries.
Does deferred lighting work in BC well? Just wondering if I need to work on making stuff look deferred or not.
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....for which has no place in this thread. The placement/location and the number of escape pods is up to the artist. Even the people who worked on the show make mistakes, and fan-arguments develop. :roll
Most likely an admin will say that any further discussion on the topic of escape pods vs. crew compliment should go to another thread.
.....Or we could just listen to reason and remember that these ships also have shuttlecraft. :angel /escape pod topic
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Also, escape pods are generally not the only method of leaving the ship in an emergency. You also have the transporter (if in range of a planet/another ship), as well as the shuttles.
@ Shadowknight1: Ahem :)
Bottomline is: The artist decides what goes on his/her ship, and why. We are merely here to provide constructive criticism, and useful suggestions as needed.
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Lastest pics. Secondary hull nearing completion. Aztecing about the only thing missing at this point. Next will be nacelles, pylons, and registries.
[Edit: Pics At the end of thread]
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good gravy man, you are just hauling ass though this.
looks good :thumbsup: cookie
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She?s looking a beuty! :yay:
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damn brex, I leave for a while and you go and learn how to model :funny
Mind if I hp that..err..I guess you'd hafta call that ambassador refit..??
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i am loving this ship!!!
but are you going with blue impulse engine? or is that just the pic?
also, are those phaser arrays on the nacelles (like Venture-style Galaxy Class refit)?
if so, thats awesome!!
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Newest pics. Main part of the hull is now mostly textured. Going with Wiley's advice about using more than one layer of of Aztecing. I still need to add 1 more layer of "aztecing" before the main part of the secondary hull is officially finished. But went ahead and started texturing the nacelles and pylons. I'm *really* impressed with how some of my experiments are turning out into awesome detail for this ship. Here are the latest pictures.
[Edit: New Pics at End of Thread]
damn brex, I leave for a while and you go and learn how to model :funny
Mind if I hp that..err..I guess you'd hafta call that ambassador refit..??
Well, I was thinking of asking for volunteers for hardpointing this thing. Even though I know how to hardpoint, it's one of the things I like least about making BC ships. I'll make you an orthographic hardpoint map with the stats I want, and send it to you in the next datastream. Which I believe is in 32 days. XD
i am loving this ship!!!
but are you going with blue impulse engine? or is that just the pic?
also, are those phaser arrays on the nacelles (like Venture-style Galaxy Class refit)?
if so, thats awesome!!
Blue Impulse Engine since this is technically a TLE ship, and the Enterprise-C had blue impulse engines. If I have to change it back to red, I'll make it green or purple, and then you all have to deal with it. BWAHAHAHAHA!
Speaking of Green and Purple, I was thinking of seeing if anyone was up to making STO textures for this ship. Specifically the Borg, Dominion, Aegis, and MACO skins. I'd do them myself, but I'm about ready to move onto my next project once this girl is finished and hardpointed. Plus, I'm not that good with mimicking textures from other games. So, any interested parties, please let me know. I'll send you the PSDs or blank BMPs of the unwraps, whatever you need to make this work.
And I do have 1 question for those that use symmetry in their unwraps. I am having the hardest time with straight lines that are DEAD CENTER on the mesh. aka, any lines that are along the y axis of the mesh. The lines always appear lighter or doubled compared to the rest of the mesh. Can anyone offer some suggestions on how to fix this?
Edit: Oh, and a cookie to the first person who can find SAM in the windows.
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Well, I was thinking of asking for volunteers for hardpointing this thing. Even though I know how to hardpoint, it's one of the things I like least about making BC ships. I'll make you an orthographic hardpoint map with the stats I want, and send it to you in the next datastream. Which I believe is in 32 days. XD
http://bc-central.net/forums/index.php/topic,9394.0.html
And I do have 1 question for those that use symmetry in their unwraps. I am having the hardest time with straight lines that are DEAD CENTER on the mesh. aka, any lines that are along the y axis of the mesh. The lines always appear lighter or doubled compared to the rest of the mesh. Can anyone offer some suggestions on how to fix this?
You'll have to edit the UV map then. Just select the UV polygons/vertices/edges and slide them so that it gets more or less of the line.
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Blue Impulse Engine since this is technically a TLE ship, and the Enterprise-C had blue impulse engines. If I have to change it back to red, I'll make it green or purple, and then you all have to deal with it. BWAHAHAHAHA!
no you should totally go with red... or perhaps have two different textures, one blue and one red...
oh wait!! do it a hot pink!
or a pretty rainbow - make it gayly fabulous sweetie! lol j/k :P
but yeah, go with red...
Edit: Oh, and a cookie to the first person who can find SAM in the windows.
OMG i fucking love you :) :dance :kiss:
youre fabulous, sweetie dah-ling! cheers babe! :drink2: :drink3: :drink:
VVVVVV this is so us lol :)
(http://www.splitting-images.com/JulieBarnett-LesleyGuinness.jpg)
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For Jimmy:
First we have the blue impulse engine as seen in Yesterday's Enterprise:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Blue.jpg)
Then we have the red impulse engine as seen in TOS Remastered, TNG proper, DS9, and Voyager:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Red.jpg)
Lastly, upon special request of JimmyB76, we have Pink:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Pink.jpg)
and Ab Fab Rainbow:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rainbow.jpg)
Enjoy Jimmy :D
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:rotflmfao:
But love the red one
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:rotflmfao:
But love the red one
Me too !
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:rotflmfao:
But love the red one
:funny :funny :funny :funny :funny this
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Chief don't forget the little red semi circles around the ends of the nacelle and pylon phaser strips
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Okay, here we go. Everything is pretty much finished. I'm in the finalizing stages now. So, whatever suggestions you have, make 'em. Because the next update I make on this will be to announce that the ship is finished. Anyway, enjoy the new pics.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex01.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex02.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex03.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex04.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex05.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex06.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTexDor.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTexVen.jpg)
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Perfect, change nothing :yay:
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Agreed. I think it's been derailed enough :)
In regards to the ship, I can't see a single thing that needs adding. Mighty fine work there, Brex.
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She looks great man you should be justly proud :yay:
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Cookie for you Brex.
Excellent work!
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She looks perfect Chief! Be proud of yourself as you have made a first rate ship
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He could put Unicorns and butterflies for all we care because of that!
Whoa !!! Better not give hi such ideas :funny who knows, he might redo textures to make rainbow-unicorn ship :funny
I really like these textures Chief, you might consider adding some service hatches like on Constitution or Intrepid class here and there ;)
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Whoa !!! Better not give hi such ideas :funny who knows, he might redo textures to make rainbow-unicorn ship :funny
I really like these textures Chief, you might consider adding some service hatches like on Constitution or Intrepid class here and there ;)
That is the kind of suggestion I was looking for.
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Service hatches, lifeline or resupp ports, regestry marks, logos....
All good suggestions to add life and depth.
No easter eggs on ships..... Thats MY trademark... Ask anybody :funny
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Oy !!! me and DJ also did some easter eggs on textures :P
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That is the kind of suggestion I was looking for.
If you're still taking suggestions for the Rigel class: Not sure if its been brought up: If the ship is between ambassador and galaxy, adding an ambassador scheme to the saucer, but in shades of grey instead of blue?
If it has already been brought up, I apologize.
(http://employees.csbsju.edu/rsorensen/modelcitizen/trekships/ambassador/amb-s-keel.jpg)
(http://employees.csbsju.edu/rsorensen/modelcitizen/trekships/ambassador/amb-s-top.jpg)
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why cant brex's thread just stay ontopic about his project?
poor guy keeps having all sorts of derailments and offtopic posts in his thread and it is becoming annoying now...
ive just deleted the last two posts and im just gonna start summarily deleting offtopic and spam posts in this thread and repeat offenders will just be banned for some time with no advance warning (except this one and only general one to everyone), i dont care who it is anymore...
have some respect for brex, people, and stop posting spam and offtopic in his thread please ok?
please keep the posts ontopic and post only with questions or comments related to his projects only...
thx
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Hey Brex nice work. Are you going to use SDT for Impulse variants?
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I hadn't planned on it. I was going to just package the blue and red impulse engines so that people could choose which one they want.
Jimmy, on the other hand, is going to get all four of them. He did ask for the Pink and Rainbow Impulse Engines XD
Edit: And for the Ambassador-esque hull coloring, I tried that on the nacelles, and I liked the way it looked. So I may do something similar on the rest of the ship.
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Or release two versions with the more TNG one a refit? Just an idea. :)
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yea yea. You just want to make more work for me :P
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yea yea. You just want to make more work for me :P
I'm only throwing ideas around. ;) As many may have all ready gatherd I love TLE ships!
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Well quit throwing ideas around, you're likely to hit someone in the head.
And the last thing we need is people around here is getting ideas XD
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Ah fair enough she is a fine ship Chief top quality. :D
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Thanks. The work's still not done though. After her textures are done, she needs spec maps. I've heard that color spec maps are now all the rage? Then I still have to unify the mesh. THEN, I can get her sent off for hardpointing. Unless, of course, I figure out how to do deferred lighting. Then I'd redo some of the glows to black and bronze so that they are in their "off" status. And then do a light map with just the glows visible. Would be interesting to see how it works.
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Hell yeah, spending time will make her better. Patience is well rewarded as I allways tell myself.
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Jimmy, on the other hand, is going to get all four of them. He did ask for the Pink and Rainbow Impulse Engines XD
i was so totally joking about those colors for impulse engines lol :P
but hey, ill take them if youve already done them - but if you havent, please dont think i was serious about them so as to do them lol
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Jimmy, you might want to go back to page 18 of the thread and look my friend XD
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i know, i saw; i didnt think you had actually done them as yet... but anyway, ill take them then lol
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I know you will take them. And I know you will like them... Or else. -gets out the whip-
Going to have to figure out how to use SDT to switch them out for Jimmy lol.
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I know you will take them. And I know you will like them... Or else. -gets out the whip-
Going to have to figure out how to use SDT to switch them out for Jimmy lol.
I can help you out there!
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Hey ChiefBrex, you have a PM. Check your mailbox ;)
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I can help you out there!
Awesome eclipse! I need a refresher anyway, because there will be two ships: USS Tolstoy and USS Akagi. I might do a USS Rigel. So yeah, need SDT for that.
Hey ChiefBrex, you have a PM. Check your mailbox ;)
I saw your message. I haven't replied yet because the project isn't finished yet. But I will let you know something asap :)
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Well I got some long overdue (good thing he does give fines) excelsiors to deal with so no rush.
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if you need scripting help with SDT and plugins or whatever, or any scripting help at all - lemme know :)
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This sounds bad, but.....what do service hatches and resupply ports on a starship look like :help: :idk:
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Excelsior has a lot of hatches on it. They're the red squares on its saucer.
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Okay, I will go take a look at the Excelsior models then, and see if I can recreate them.
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Or look at some of my retextures like Krakow or Sobieski or Resurrection, those have plenty of hatches too :P
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Links to those please? :)
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what do service hatches and resupply ports on a starship look like
Random areas of the ship that are either outlined in red, or have miniscule detailing.
These links should give you an idea:
http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/constitution/constitution-65813.html#joomimg (http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/constitution/constitution-65813.html#joomimg)
http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/sovereign/sovereign-66690.html#joomimg (http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/sovereign/sovereign-66690.html#joomimg)
http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/intrepid/intrepid-66455.html#joomimg (http://www.st-bilder.de/gallery/modelle/sternenflotte/intrepid/intrepid-66455.html#joomimg)
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I used the service hatches I saw on the Lakota Refit to make hatches on the Rigel Class. So now all I need is to finish the Aztecing on the saucer and secondary hull, add some resupply ports, and she's officially done.
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I saw your message. I haven't replied yet because the project isn't finished yet. But I will let you know something asap :)
No pressure! Just take your time. :)
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I guess it's been awhile since I've done speculars. But iirc, I should be able to see the speculars in my renders of the Rigel Class. However, no matter what settings I use, and how I adjust the spec maps, the speculars are not showing up in the renders. Can anyone help?
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I guess it's been awhile since I've done speculars. But iirc, I should be able to see the speculars in my renders of the Rigel Class. However, no matter what settings I use, and how I adjust the spec maps, the speculars are not showing up in the renders. Can anyone help?
Set up your scene as I showed here[url], and get two omni lights into it too, but set each on opposite side, use intensity levels of 0.5 on each if you use two, 0.1 if you use 4 (then turn off two's diffuse channels which are opposite of each other). (http://www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,5359.0.html)
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Set up your scene as I showed here[url], and get two omni lights into it too, but set each on opposite side, use intensity levels of 0.5 on each if you use two, 0.1 if you use 4 (then turn off two's diffuse channels which are opposite of each other).
(http://www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,5359.0.html)
Tried this, and I'm still not getting any visible change in the renders when the Speculars are applied. All I've managed to do is overexpose the rest of the mesh. It's almost blinding to look at. And I've been moving the two omnis around, moved the skylight right above the mesh.
Specular maps go in Specular Level or Specular Color?
EDIT: Okay, figured out it is supposed to be Specular level. And I made all my spec maps grayscale. But I was looking at Kirk's Applying Textures tutorial and I noticed the spec map he used for CG's Sovvie is Black and White. So I'm wondering if maybe that's why they're not showing up in render? Because I didn't make them black and white?
Anyway, New Renders:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex01.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex02.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex03.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex04.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex05.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex06.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/RigelTex07.jpg)
Gentleman, I give you, the USS Rigel, first of her class:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rigel.jpg)
The USS Tolstoy, destroyed at Wolf 359 in 2367:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Tolstoy.jpg)
and the USS Akagi, currently still on active service:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Akagi.jpg)
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Very nice!
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they are gorgeous Brex! Ccan't wait to give them a fly
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stunning! well done!! :D
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Brilliant!
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Thanks. The only issue I have now is with the speculars. But I'm sure I'll get them sorted out. Anyway, the ship is ready to be ported to NIF Format. Not sure if I'm ready to tackle deferred lighting just yet.
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Tried this, and I'm still not getting any visible change in the renders when the Speculars are applied. All I've managed to do is overexpose the rest of the mesh. It's almost blinding to look at. And I've been moving the two omnis around, moved the skylight right above the mesh.
Specular maps go in Specular Level or Specular Color?
EDIT: Okay, figured out it is supposed to be Specular level. And I made all my spec maps grayscale. But I was looking at Kirk's Applying Textures tutorial and I noticed the spec map he used for CG's Sovvie is Black and White. So I'm wondering if maybe that's why they're not showing up in render? Because I didn't make them black and white?
Don't make specs grayscale on Fed ships, it doesn't suit them! If you want to see how it would look in BC, then set it both as color and level, but set the color ones setting to RGB instead of opaque in it's material setup.
The skylight position makes no difference whatsoever.
I always put the omnis at 5000 meters on all axises from the model, and always two opposite facing ones (say omni 1 is at coords (x,y,z) 5000, 5000, 5000, then omni two will be at -5000,-5000,-5000) are the two mains, the other two are strictly for normals and specularity (each omni has a setting to turn off the diffuse and specular illumination). In a four omni setup the skylights multiplier is at 0.5, and all omnis are at 0.1, in a two omni setup their multipliers would be 0.4 at least, but the 4 one gives a lot better result. The other two omnis go to the sides which are the least illuminated. This way the whole ship gets at least specular lightning. Try this setup: put the skylight anywhere, omni1 to 5000,5000,5000, omni2 to -5000,-5000,-5000 (these are your main ones), omni3 to -5000,5000,-5000, omni4 to 5000,-5000,5000 (these get the diffuse channel turned off in their settings). Skylight multiplier is 0.5 (turn it's shadow map off, you don't need it really), the omnis are 0.1, set all of them to advanced raytraced shadowing. Don't forget to turn on the light tracer as I showed in that blog of mine. You should get a result like this for example:
(http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv1/NSAdonis/ST/NCCExcelsiorPub_00.jpg)
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Excellent job Brex!
Very much look forward to installing these... and thank you for doing this awesome work for our community!
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Thank you everyone for the kind words! Adonis, I will try that set up. So, should the specs be in color or monotone (ie black & white)?
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Thank you everyone for the kind words! Adonis, I will try that set up. So, should the specs be in color or monotone (ie black & white)?
Color, the way BC sees specs, color is good for Feds, while Klinks and Roms are better with either grayscale, or a combo of grayscale and coloring (depends really on the ship). All my Feds have colored specular maps :)
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Ok. I'll try colored again. Any recommendations on the settings for the layers of aztecing?
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Ok. I'll try colored again. Any recommendations on the settings for the layers of aztecing?
Try more garish versions of the diffuse colors. If that doesn't work, toy around with some gray-green and duck-egg shades. Just make them more garish than the diffuse ones.
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But generally in the range color spectrum? So, nothing like red or pink or orange? Or area those more appropriate?
Edit: I give up. I have set up the lighting scheme like you suggested Adonis. Exactly like. And I'm barely seeing anything of the speculars in the renders. I'm starting to wonder if I remember how to do speculars :hithead:
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But generally in the range color spectrum? So, nothing like red or pink or orange? Or area those more appropriate?
Edit: I give up. I have set up the lighting scheme like you suggested Adonis. Exactly like. And I'm barely seeing anything of the speculars in the renders. I'm starting to wonder if I remember how to do speculars :hithead:
Get my Novi Sad class off BCFiles, and see her spec maps. She's my last mod I released for BC. Your ship should generally have a blue specular hue to it, using garish, gray-blue colors. Disregard the coloring of the thrusters and teleporter pads on the specs on the Novi Sad, that was really an error on my part I never fixed (the blue color of the spec is actually an inverse of the yellow I used on the diffuse).
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Brex, noticed your post on the Exeter at BCF. She's not a port. Original model, original textures. ;)
As for specs, I recommend high contrast with color. Definitely looks the best.
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Okay, I give up on speculars. I've done EVERYTHING Adonis told me to do, and STILL, I get NOTHING in Max.
This was the result:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Speculartest.jpg)
These are my spec map settings:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/SpecularMapSettings.jpg)
Speculars were also the one map I had the hardest time with.... :banghead: :help:
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Interesting.. As it has a shine in the material editor....
Whats your map look like?
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The registry also looks out of place with speculars applied.
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For some reason, the speculars are working on the registry textures in the render, but not on the rest of the mesh.
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Something wrong with the mapping then?
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Nope. If there were a problem with the mapping, it would be reflected in the diffuse maps first. And I have not seen any issues with the textures.
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Have you tried sacrificing a pacifist klingon to the gods?
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Have you tried sacrificing a pacifist klingon to the gods?
No. Jimmy says it gives gay people hives if you do this.
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Turn off the invert in the settings, you don't need it, and if you applied that as spec color, set it to RGB instead of opaque. Mind you, the specs will show up best if you view the ship from a complementary angle to the one the lightsources rays hit it at (say, if your light is viewed from that pic render you posted directly opposite and set below, then you should get the specularity show up fully).
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Hummm... I don?t know if it helps, or not, but... Here it goes anyway.
My settings to show speculars, are a bit different, and even that way it can?t be perfectly seen all the time. It has something rellated to the angle where the light reflects. Look at these renderings of my Interceptor class conversion, from lwo to max, and you can see the differences due to the angle and lights position (renderings were done in video post just to show the glows):
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/230/5/7/interceptor_class_by_brstarship-d5blhsn.jpg)
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/230/e/0/starfleet___interceptor_class_by_brstarship-d5blj43.jpg)
Better than try to explain, is to provide you the mesh (3dsmax9) itself. Download it here, and take a look at the material editor settings, maps, and lights :
http://brstarship.deviantart.com/gallery/38954220#/d5blj43
About the registry issue, you can solve it by two ways:
1- using the blend material
2- making the registry as a mesh itself (costs much more pollys)
Hope that helps a bit. ;)
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Turn off the invert in the settings, you don't need it, and if you applied that as spec color, set it to RGB instead of opaque. Mind you, the specs will show up best if you view the ship from a complementary angle to the one the lightsources rays hit it at (say, if your light is viewed from that pic render you posted directly opposite and set below, then you should get the specularity show up fully).
They're set up in Spec level only, as the spec maps are in color. As for the angles, I've got my omnis set up exactly where you told me to put them, and then changed the angle of the view to what you see. But I had to change the first two omnis to 0.4, as 0.1 was showing up so little, that you couldn't see anything of the shadows.
Hummm... I don?t know if it helps, or not, but... Here it goes anyway.
My settings to show speculars, are a bit different, and even that way it can?t be perfectly seen all the time. It has something rellated to the angle where the light reflects. Look at these renderings of my Interceptor class conversion, from lwo to max, and you can see the differences due to the angle and lights position (renderings were done in video post just to show the glows):
Better than try to explain, is to provide you the mesh (3dsmax9) itself. Download it here, and take a look at the material editor settings, maps, and lights :
http://brstarship.deviantart.com/gallery/38954220#/d5blj43
About the registry issue, you can solve it by two ways:
1- using the blend material
2- making the registry as a mesh itself (costs much more pollys)
Hope that helps a bit. ;)
Not really. My registries, for starters, look fine with no speculars applied. The only reason they're showing up so bright is because speculars are applied.
Here is a picture of one of my spec maps. It's from the saucer. All three spec maps use the same color scheme.
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/Rigel01_spec.jpg)
If I can't get these color maps to work, I'm going back to gray scale with black and white specs.
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Is it possible that your specular maps are currently on more than one layer?
If so then try flattening the image in Photoshop or something... that might help as I have found that when I have specular problems sometimes it's due to them being on more than one layer such as a glow layer and an RGB layer. Once I flatten them into just one layer it takes care of the problem.
I realize that you're having the issue in Max but I'm just talking about proper specularity showing up in BC.
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TGA format flattens the image doesn't it?
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TGA format flattens the image doesn't it?
Yup, Have you check the Alpha Channel to your Specular map, it might be that its all black instad of the white needed for speculars! :) Just an idea i don't know whether it affects the lighting in MAX.
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I removed the alpha channel on the speculars, since they're supposed to be 24-bit. Aren't they?
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I removed the alpha channel on the speculars, since they're supposed to be 24-bit. Aren't they?
I thought BC only operated in 16 bit and 32?
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They're set up in Spec level only, as the spec maps are in color. As for the angles, I've got my omnis set up exactly where you told me to put them, and then changed the angle of the view to what you see. But I had to change the first two omnis to 0.4, as 0.1 was showing up so little, that you couldn't see anything of the shadows.
Brex dude, BC uses spec color, not level (level is something entirely different, Excaliburs engine uses it correctly). Set your specular as both color and level, but use the rgb setting for color, and opaque for level under alpha source, that way, it'll give you a fairly close approximation of how it will look ingame. BC's specular maps don't utilize the alpha channel! Just make sure the camera is facing one of the light sources on the horizontal plane, and they should show up. And in each materials setup you don't need the invert function on. Also, you could make your spec map slightly lighter in color intensity.
I thought BC only operated in 16 bit and 32?
They work in 24 bit and 32bit (which is basically 24bit+alpha channel).
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Brex dude, BC uses spec color, not level (level is something entirely different, Excaliburs engine uses it correctly). Set your specular as both color and level, but use the rgb setting for color, and opaque for level under alpha source, that way, it'll give you a fairly close approximation of how it will look ingame. BC's specular maps don't utilize the alpha channel! Just make sure the camera is facing one of the light sources on the horizontal plane, and they should show up. And in each materials setup you don't need the invert function on. Also, you could make your spec map slightly lighter in color intensity.
Okay, tried all this, and still nothing. I think the Rigel Class will have to go without speculars, or I'm going to have to use black and white specs, because nothing is working, and it's only pissing me off to the point where I'm about to scrap this project.
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Black and white specs are fine. Most of DJ's and Wiley's are black and white and look how beautiful they are
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Hell I use b&w specs
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Okay, tried all this, and still nothing. I think the Rigel Class will have to go without speculars, or I'm going to have to use black and white specs, because nothing is working, and it's only pissing me off to the point where I'm about to scrap this project.
Dude, take a breather and catch me on skype, and we'll see what wrong ;)
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Brex, you also might want to talk to Bones, he's had success with colored spec maps.
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Brex, you also might want to talk to Bones, he's had success with colored spec maps.
I never did...
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[suddenly awakes] AAAAyee, success it was :D I'll have to go through last few pages to see what's the problem ;)
EDIT:
I could never get rendered ships to display any level of specularity in MAX :lostit: but they appear just fine in BC ;) have you tried running this ship in BC yet ?
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No, I haven't. It still needs to be hardpointed and scripted.
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[suddenly awakes] AAAAyee, success it was :D I'll have to go through last few pages to see what's the problem ;)
EDIT:
I could never get rendered ships to display any level of specularity in MAX :lostit: but they appear just fine in BC ;) have you tried running this ship in BC yet ?
No, I haven't. It still needs to be hardpointed and scripted.
Basically, he is having trouble setting up the speculars in max (which doesn't mean they won't work in the game itself).
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[suddenly awakes] AAAAyee, success it was :D I'll have to go through last few pages to see what's the problem ;)
EDIT:
I could never get rendered ships to display any level of specularity in MAX :lostit: but they appear just fine in BC ;) have you tried running this ship in BC yet ?
Agreed!
I remember reading posts from several different modders through the years where they also didn't have success with specs in Max but worked fine in BC.
You should maybe give it a look-see in BC first even before scripting/hard pointing. It might just be working :)
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Not sure how to get it ingame without hardpoint and scripts lol
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Export the ship to nif, then plug it in place of a mod you know works, make sure you back the mod model before you replace it with the reigel. Make sure the models are named the same so you dont have to mess with scripts.
I call it a dummy test, I do it to make sure the model damages proper etc. before I start textures.
.. Bones has some explaining to do about colored specs....
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All I do to get colored speculars is turning them from greyscale to rgb 32-bit and make completely black alpha channel (at the time tga is saved as rgb 32-bit, photoshop automatically creates white alpha channel - now I'm sure it doesn't work in BC anyway but I like to keep it black :P ) then it's up to you what you want in color and what not;)
You can always just copy your diffuse map and rename it from _glow to _specular, open specular, clear alpha channel and then play with levels, exposure, contrast, brightness etc. etc. to make nice speculars (drawback is that colors will become really harsh for your eyes so I recommend lowering saturation considerably ;) )
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Adonis said if they don't look good in BC, I should go and make them a little lighter. He also suggest that I include some occlusion and shadowing effects on the diffuse map to get the textures more depth.
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These are my spec map settings:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Rigel%20Class/SpecularMapSettings.jpg)
Speculars were also the one map I had the hardest time with.... :banghead: :help:
I noticed one thing, only the second texture in that pic is applied to the model as shown by the triangle in the corners of the box. The other 3 textures aren't applied to the model. Did you import some of the pieces into the scene?
Try Reappling the textures to the model pieces using the ones in the material editor and see what happens.
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I noticed one thing, only the second texture in that pic is applied to the model as shown by the triangle in the corners of the box. The other 3 textures aren't applied to the model. Did you import some of the pieces into the scene?
Try Reappling the textures to the model pieces using the ones in the material editor and see what happens.
Uhm, no. none of the ship pieces were imported to the scene. The file I used to set up the scene was directly from one of the save files. All the textures should be applied.
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I'd try reapplying them anyway just in case. As I said before, according to the pic of the material editor, only one of the textures is applied. Could end up being a bug from using the save file.
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I'd try reapplying them anyway just in case. As I said before, according to the pic of the material editor, only one of the textures is applied. Could end up being a bug from using the save file.
This.
Good catch genty
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Ya'll just want me to work on the Rigel, never finishing it lol
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Ya'll just want me to work on the Rigel, never finishing it lol
She is some fine work Chief, and a credit to your skill and perseverance. Would be a great shame if she weren't finished
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Genty was right. Apparently the textures were not being applied to the mesh. Now I can see the speculars. They're very subtle, but they're there.
Edit: I swear to God, I keep running into road blocks. Now I finally get the mesh's textures fixed. I scaled it to LC's Ambassador and turned it around. So, I'm trying to get it loaded in MPE, and MPE crashes every time I try to add the ambassador global template...Don't know what else to do.
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what version of max are you using, cuz the newer versions of 3ds max seem to bugg out the .nif export and break it, also did you change the dropdown for games to star trek bridge commander?
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what version of max are you using, cuz the newer versions of 3ds max seem to bugg out the .nif export and break it, also did you change the dropdown for games to star trek bridge commander?
I use Max 2010, because I can't find anything older. And yes, I did.
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hmm... i have max 9 installed so if you want to send it to me in a PM ill do the conversion for you and well see what happens from there ok? (you will have to export the file to another format as older versions of 3ds max cannot open newer versions of the programs .max files perhaps .obj will be the best for it)
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an icon maker program available to make the ship icon for BC?
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Eh what I generally do is just use the Perspective viewport and tilt it till it looks good to me. Some people just use the top viewport.
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Eh what I generally do is just use the Perspective viewport and tilt it till it looks good to me. Some people just use the top viewport.
That's not what I meant. I have the icon made in max. But what I mean is, is there not a program that allows you to apply the systems icons to the ship icon without having to do it via MPE.
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Oops...yeah you're right, sorry I misread that! There is a program that does that. I think Mario created that program if I'm not mistaken.
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Okay, I'll harrass him about it. Thanks.
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isnt that program BCUT? i may be mistaked, check in the SDK files as i seem to remember a similar program in there. also it may be the ship menu creator for BC, again i recomend checking before using.
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I downloaded the Tactical Display Icon Editor 1.0.5 from BCFiles. I wasn't sure if there was a TDIE included with BCUT.
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Double Post:
Okay, she's almost ingame. I got the hardpoint finished (I think), and I've generated the ship plugin. But when I tried to load the ship, this was the error message the debug console gave me:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/Error.jpg)
Not sure what it means or how to fix it.
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Does anyone have a clue to this issue? It's the only thing keeping me from being able to test the Rigel right now.
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It seems there's something wrong in ship file(the one in scripts/ships) ship class must be stock ship from stock bc like Akira or Galaxy or Ambassador... but I'm not sure if that's the problem, gotta wait for scripting elders to confirm ;)
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It seems there's something wrong in ship file(the one in scripts/ships) ship class must be stock ship from stock bc like Akira or Galaxy or Ambassador... but I'm not sure if that's the problem, gotta wait for scripting elders to confirm ;)
you were right. There was a mistake in the script/ships file, but it wasn't the species name. I've got the rigel as species.GALAXY. But it was the fact that I was trying to load the LC_zhukovtp hardpoint, when that file wasn't even available in the install yet. I've changed it to read Rigel, and changed the ship name to USS Rigel. We'll see if that fixes it now.
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Okay, finally got the ship ingame, but, phasers are totally messed up. The arcs are literally backwards. Not sure how I managed that, but will fix it. Also need to fix the textures, as apparently, there are some windows that now look "split" horizontally on the secondary hull. Never noticed it in Max before, so need to go and see what the issue is, and fix that.
But, other than that, she's nearly balanced. She can take out a stock BoP and Vorcha easily. Stock Galaxy is just about evenly matched, and a stock Sovereign is a challenge, but doable. Once I get replacement ships in, I'm sure the Rigel will have a hard time against a Galaxy, and will more than likely be destroyed by a Sovereign Class (as it should be).
Anyway, a few screenshots for you to enjoy. Anyone else want to help me Beta test this ship?
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot002.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot003.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot010.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot013.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot016.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot020.jpg)
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m61/ChiefBrex/Bridge%20Commander/ScreenShot022.jpg)
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Beta-Tester Here!
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Is there anyone good with phaser hardpointing?
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if you have just encountered reverse phaseres arc then you just have to make them fire backwards and opposite to what they should face and you're good to go ;) dunno why that happens but making them fire into the hull actually made them fire properly each time I made new phaser :P
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if you have just encountered reverse phaseres arc then you just have to make them fire backwards and opposite to what they should face and you're good to go ;) dunno why that happens but making them fire into the hull actually made them fire properly each time I made new phaser :P
Will have to try that.
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Hardpointing has its WTF?? Moments, you just got caught in one early ;) she looks good ingame.
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She does. I'm so proud of the Rigel Class. Jimmy says it's one of my best works ever. And I think he's right. The mesh is practically clean, she looks high quality, despite the lack of AA and filtering available in BC, the textures look clean and crisp, especially the registries. Once I get the phaser hardpoint issue fixed, I'll be ready to send it off to beta testers. I know Nix and 007bashir have volunteered. Anyone else? I'd like at least 1 or 2 more people.
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She does. I'm so proud of the Rigel Class. Jimmy says it's one of my best works ever. And I think he's right. The mesh is practically clean, she looks high quality, despite the lack of AA and filtering available in BC, the textures look clean and crisp, especially the registries. Once I get the phaser hardpoint issue fixed, I'll be ready to send it off to beta testers. I know Nix and 007bashir have volunteered. Anyone else? I'd like at least 1 or 2 more people.
I have a couple of days left, one last beta for a whislt. :)
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Okay, once the phasers are working, I'll pass it along to bashir and Killa.
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She looks a beauty Chief! :bow:
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Okay, that's it, I'm done playing around with the phasers. I reset their orientations by clicking on Normal, then adjusted the firing arcs. Now the phasers won't target anything... Maneuvering stuff around MPE is a pain in the ass.
I need someone that knows how to do phaser hardpoints, like right now.
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srsly disappointed that in 2 days, no one's come forward to help. Guess this project's going on hold until I do get help.
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pm tiqud for help with hping ;)
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I dont hold grudges Chief=
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I've got the dorsal phasers working, but for some reason, they not only can fire in the direction they're facing, but also from behind. IE, the forward phasers also fire when the ship is facing away from the target.
I've also got the dorsal phasers on the nacelles working as intended, but the ones on the nacelle pylons won't fire. they won't even target. And the ventral phasers on the saucer won't fire either.
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REVERSE THEM :) I've played for ages with both SR-1 and SR-2 Normandy then voila ! I noticed a pattern in their missallignment, which was that they were firing in complete opposite direction I set them to ;) when I put them into reverse they started to work perfectly :lostit: gotta love BC's HP system...
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That's just it, I have reversed them. And they're still firing in multiple directions.
For example, the FORWARD DORSAL PHASERS, fire BOTH FORWARD and AFT.
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Aw crap ... I'm out of ideas then ... maybe if I would take a look at it ?
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I'm going to delete the phaser templates and hardpoints, and redo them based off of LC's Zhukov. Hopefully, that will fix them.
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Double Post, I've got the phasers working correctly now. And even colored correctly. I'm going to add a couple of phasers so that there are phaser arrays that are facing directly forward and aft to add more coverage. After that, I'll pack it up into an install program, and send it to my beta testers.
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:yay: :thumbsup:
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Forward phasers are still firing to the aft as well as forward. Not sure what else to do. If I change the angles that it can fire within, they forward phasers won't fire at all.
On top of that, I have an SDT issue. For some reason, the registries are not swapping out. I used BCUT to generate the ship plugin, and set it up so that it would swap the textures out, but it's not working :/ I might have set it up wrong with them. I know it's supposed to go in a sequence. So I may have to play around with it. But I don't remember. It's been awhile since I've played around with the SDT.
These are the only bugs left. Any help would be appreciated.
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These are the only bugs left. Any help would be appreciated.
Try using a line of code from one of my ships that uses map swapping. It took a little while for me to get it right.
For the hardpoint in a phaser arc, does the little green position line point in the correct direction inside the firing cone? You may have to simply get a pad of paper and a pencil and write down the numbers of a correctly coded phaser array from a different ship.
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For the hardpoint in a phaser arc, does the little green position line point in the correct direction inside the firing cone? You may have to simply get a pad of paper and a pencil and write down the numbers of a correctly coded phaser array from a different ship.
I used LC's Zhukov hardpoint as a reference. I even took screenshots of his phasers pointing forward, port, and starboard, to make sure the direction, up, and right values were exactly the same. The only differences I made were the positions of the phasers, the max hp of each phaser, and the firing arcs.
As of right now, the forward phasers use a vertical angle from -2 degrees to 120 degrees. If I use anything less than 120 degrees, the forward phasers won't fire. But at 120 degrees, they also fire aft, through the mesh. I could understand this if I were using, say, 180 degrees. But, I should be able to use 120 degrees. Or, is BC limited to 112.5 as the maximum angle for horizontal and vertical?
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switch -2 to 120 and vice versa, I remember doing something like that when hardpointing SR-2 Normandy
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switch -2 to 120 and vice versa, I remember doing something like that when hardpointing SR-2 Normandy
ok. I'll try that.
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switch -2 to 120 and vice versa, I remember doing something like that when hardpointing SR-2 Normandy
Tried this, and the forward phasers are still firing both Forward and Aft. I'm really at a total loss. I've never had this happen before with phasers, ever. The green axis is point up on every dorsal and lateral phaser, and down on every ventral phaser. And the blue axis is point to the right or left, depending on the orientation and position of the phaser on the mesh.
Also, even after copying a line of coding from WC's excelsior pack to swap out IDs, all I'm still seeing is the USS Rigel registry. EDIT: Okay, I'm an idiot. I forgot to install the SDT. I thought it came with BCUT rofl. :facepalm:
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Triple Post: Rigel has been sent off to my Beta Testers. Will look forward to hearing what they have to say.
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I saw your message. I haven't replied yet because the project isn't finished yet. But I will let you know something asap smile
No pressure! Just take your time. :)
Hi Chief!
Since the mesh is now finished, can I have that copy in max format? ;)
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I do apologize for the lack of updates. Aside from waiting to hear from my beta testers, I've also been trying to fix the problems that have already been brought up. And sadly, not being able to figure out how to fix them.... :(
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Are you still having troubles, with getting some phaser to fire forward? It can be tuff. but sometimes you have to Delete said phaser and make Newer one or even a copy of another that is firing correctly, but the offending phaser Must be deleted from list.
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whats your problem mate, anything i can help with
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bashir007 says that the registry textures are still brighter than the rest of the mesh. He also says the glows are too bright (although, not sure if that has anything to do with whether he uses the enhanced glows or not), and that it destroyed DJ's Ambassador without any problem. I used LC's Ambassador stats as a reference point. Overall, the Rigel Class should be equally matched with LC's Ambassador. So, that means that either LC's Ambassador is either overpowered or DJ's Ambassador is underpowered. Or the Rigel's overpowered. Not sure what it is. I'm just ready to release the girl.
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Okay, well, since we've gone back in time to 2012....(thanks eclipse! ;)) I'm going to resurrect this thread, as it listed all the projects I had planned on working at some point for Bridge Commander. And now that I have BC working on my ubermachine, aka Alienware Aurora R4 with Windows 10 (yuck), I'm planning on getting back into modding.
You guys will have to bare with me though, as I'm extremely rusty (anyone got an oil can handy?). So, things may take some time to get stuff done.
Anyway: The Rigel Class is, more or less, ready for release. I still have her, with all her textures and whatnot, on hand. But, I was having trouble with her hardpoints. For some reason, phasers that are supposed to be forward facing only, were still firing, even with the Rigel Class facing AWAY from it's target. As such, the phaser beams were going right through the mesh. And I don't think I ever got that fixed.
Other projects that I am currently working on at the same time as trying to finish the Rigel Class:
Rigel Class Bridge - In the process of texturing this atm. Need help with LCARS, Lighting, etc.
TOS Pack - I have the Romulan Bird of Prey mesh finish. Working on the Constitution Class parts, which will be used to kitbash other Starfleet TOS ships. This pack will also include the Class F Shuttle, and the Klingon D-7, which will also feature as a Romulan D-7R (or Stormbird class)
Project: [REDACTED] - This is a top secret project I'm working on. I'll show progress on it at some point soon. Anyone who can guess what she is, will get to Beta Test her in BC for me, once she is complete.